General EV Conversation
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,540
Likes: 936
My friend has a 2018 Model 3 he's been charging in his garage to this day. Millions of people here charge their EV's in their garage. If what you were saying were true, I would be seeing hundreds, if not thousands of houses burning down due to EV. EV's more likely catch fire supercharging then home charging, and supercharging fires are extremely rare
EV != Tesla. There are plenty of low cost brands like BYD coming soon. While Tesla has invested in battery tech, others cheap out to under cut them.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,540
Likes: 936
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,056
Likes: 4,329
From: Alberta
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
Risk is relative. I could say a gas car has a higher risk of fire in a garage if it is leaking fuel. Driving around you might not notice, park in a garage it accumulates and blows up your house. That's why we look at data not talk about hypotheticals as if they represent the whole.
I understand the concern, Li-ion batteries do pose a fire risk when they are charging, thats true. I just don't think that risk is that great....look at the numbers of phones and laptops and other equipment and EVs that charge in homes every day without incident. Most of the laptop/phone/tablet fires you read about involve improper charging cables etc. If you make sure that the outlet you are using to charge is properly wired and installed, and you are using a quality UL listed charger, I think you're pretty darn safe.
This goes back to the argument we had in here a while back where people said I was silly for wanting a licensed electrician to wire and replace a charger! In this garage fire, was the charger wired properly? Was it on the correct breaker? The correct plug?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,748
Likes: 3,778
From: California
Battery tech is nothing like it was in 2020. As far as China, I would dare to say they are in the forefront of battery tech, Tesla and other companies buy batteries from BYD and CATL
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
I think we have to have faith that our regulatory agencies aren't going to allow Chinese automakers to sell cars here that aren't safe. There is a reason why Chinese automakers don't sell cars here...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,056
Likes: 4,329
From: Alberta
It literally happens I worked on a car recently that had a rusted fuel vent line it dripped gasoline unless the tank was 1/2 tank or less. One spark in an enclosed space and you have a bomb.
Battery fires are rare but when they happen there is far more energy to release hence it is harder to put them out. And let's be honest they generate sensationalized headlines gasoline fires are so common they are hardly reported. When something becomes common it is no longer news, look how many people are killed by drunk drivers. For context at least 10,000 people are killed in the U.S. per year have you seen 10,000 stories?
Electrical fires happen mainly because of arcing. Wrong breaker (current too low) and it will keep tripping. Sure it's possible to wire in a 40 amp circuit and use tiny gauge wire this will burn your house. Don't think this actually happens, or rarely. But you're of course correct, can't fool around with wiring in a charger improperly.
I understand the concern, Li-ion batteries do pose a fire risk when they are charging, thats true. I just don't think that risk is that great....look at the numbers of phones and laptops and other equipment and EVs that charge in homes every day without incident. Most of the laptop/phone/tablet fires you read about involve improper charging cables etc. If you make sure that the outlet you are using to charge is properly wired and installed, and you are using a quality UL listed charger, I think you're pretty darn safe.
This goes back to the argument we had in here a while back where people said I was silly for wanting a licensed electrician to wire and replace a charger! In this garage fire, was the charger wired properly? Was it on the correct breaker? The correct plug?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
Battery fires are rare but when they happen there is far more energy to release hence it is harder to put them out. And let's be honest they generate sensationalized headlines gasoline fires are so common they are hardly reported. When something becomes common it is no longer news, look how many people are killed by drunk drivers. For context at least 10,000 people are killed in the U.S. per year have you seen 10,000 stories?
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 287
Likes: 99
From: VA
Wiring a EV charger is a simple/intermediate DIY task for a homeowner assuming he is following code, passes an inspection while properly torquing the connections and sizing the circuit/breaker. In summary:
- Plug in a 40 amp charger to a 14-50 or 6/50 receptacle needs a 6/3 NM-B cable and a very expensive GFCI 50 amp breaker.
- Hardwiring a 48 amp charger (eg Tesla Wall Or Emporia) needs a Metal Clad 6/2 wire (or 6 AWG in conduit) and a regular 60 amp breaker. A 6/2 NM-B is not adequate.
- Hardwiring a 50 amp charger (eg Chargepoint) needs a Metal Clad 6/2 wire ( or 6 AWG wire in conduit) and a regular 70 amp breaker. Again a 6/2 NM-B will not be enough.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
Wiring a EV charger is a simple/intermediate DIY task for a homeowner assuming he is following code, passes an inspection while properly torquing the connections and sizing the circuit/breaker. In summary:
- Plug in a 40 amp charger to a 14-50 or 6/50 receptacle needs a 6/3 NM-B cable and a very expensive GFCI 50 amp breaker.
- Hardwiring a 48 amp charger (eg Tesla Wall Or Emporia) needs a Metal Clad 6/2 wire (or 6 AWG in conduit) and a regular 60 amp breaker. A 6/2 NM-B is not adequate.
- Hardwiring a 50 amp charger (eg Chargepoint) needs a Metal Clad 6/2 wire ( or 6 AWG wire in conduit) and a regular 70 amp breaker. Again a 6/2 NM-B will not be enough.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,056
Likes: 4,329
From: Alberta
edit - I'm rarely completely baffled by posts here but this time I am. You have to be trolling.
Last edited by LeX2K; Jan 13, 2024 at 02:22 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,190
Likes: 530
From: Knoxville, TN
It's frightening you actually believe this. Truly. Gasoline has a flash point of -30F the vapours and insanely explosive. Combine that in an enclosed space and it becomes exponentially more dangerous.
edit - I'm rarely completely baffled by posts here but this time I am. You have to be trolling.
edit - I'm rarely completely baffled by posts here but this time I am. You have to be trolling.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,056
Likes: 4,329
From: Alberta
That's why fuel tanks are steam cleaned several times before being repaired even a small residual of gas is dangerous. Standing gasoline in an enclosed space (garage) creates vapour if enough builds up and ignites it will level the garage.
edit - this illustrates perfectly, vapour build up in the cabin now imagine this happening in your garage.
Last edited by LeX2K; Jan 13, 2024 at 02:56 PM.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 1,624
From: San Diego, CA
The use of weasel words like "deductive reasoning" to explain the complete lack of any actual data or evidence broadly confirm that the real intent in posting that video is trolling.
So let's not feed the troll.
So let's not feed the troll.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,748
Likes: 3,778
From: California
Gasoline is highly explosive, especially in small amounts exposed to oxygen. When I was a kid I almost burned down my garage pouring it into a small glass and lighting it.
There's a reason why smoking is not allowed while fueling, and why you are supposed to discharge static electricity by grounding yourself, the vapors can cause a fire. No you probably can't drop a match into a fuel tank opening and the car will explode, but I wouldn't recommend it 😦
There's a reason why smoking is not allowed while fueling, and why you are supposed to discharge static electricity by grounding yourself, the vapors can cause a fire. No you probably can't drop a match into a fuel tank opening and the car will explode, but I wouldn't recommend it 😦