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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 05:37 AM
  #8206  
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Drive in this morning was brutal. Got as low as 9F during parts of the drive. I also made the mistake of pulling into the self wash bay this morning to get the salt off. Got the salt off but the Rivian is a little crunchy . Water froze fast at 16F


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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 05:45 AM
  #8207  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Just because an automaker spends money on something doesn't mean they should. Here's a decent solution to Ford's stupidly huge and complex folding shifter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOqXupjwv0
Thats just silly lol. The solution to what they were trying to solve is a column shifter. Ford was trying to give truck buyers what they wanted though which was a console shifter.
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 06:15 AM
  #8208  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Dont care. I want a physical selector.


And wanting change for the sake of change doesn’t make any sense. I’m all for change if it’s something that is better. I don’t see how swiping on a screen is better that a simple physical control. Pop out door handles, not better. Having a car now that has very few physical controls, physical controls are just better.
because you're the arbiter of all that is good, better, or makes sense, etc.

it isn't change for the sake of change... a shifter takes up space, especially one on the console. tesla's philosophy is minimalism and having the car do as many things for you as possible. don't like that, guess it's not for you. screen shifting is certainly not a big ordeal. people unable to do it shouldn't be driving or should at least be paying attention to whether they put the car in forward or reverse or park. the car can even do it for you in many situations (either auto shift or fsd).

When I have to type a lot (like posting on here) I always go to the computer when I can because typing is easier and better.
do you know what 'swipe' is on your iphone? i'm stunned at how many users don't know of the feature which speeds up typing dramatically.

One of my favorite stories was a time when my cousin, his wife and I were out drinking in WV And she was the DD, she got mad at us and went out to leave us where we were. We had the Jeep and I told my cousin “dont worry, she will never be able to get that thing into reverse”. We walked out 20 minutes later and sure enough there she sat, couldn’t get the Jeep into reverse because of that stupid shifter LOL
seems like a great safety feature then. if she couldn't figure that out, maybe she shouldn't be driving and maybe she'd been drinking too.

Thankfully we don’t live in a society where we don’t try and make products as safe for people as we can.
i think that's saying we do live in a society where we do make products as safe for people as we can. so all good then.

That shifter was a very poor design and Chrysler did the right thing by abandoning it.
because one famous guy died by doing something monumentally stupid, it was bad. got it.

Swiping on the screen to select forward and reverse, also a very poor design IMO.
again you just don't like change. you want features you won't use and for other things to not change because you don't like something different. that's your prerogative of course but i don't think your preferences should be forced on everyone.

Originally Posted by SW17LS
Thats just silly lol. The solution to what they were trying to solve is a column shifter. Ford was trying to give truck buyers what they wanted though which was a console shifter.
great that you have the solution for every problem. and why do you think drivers want a console shifter instead of a column shifter?
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 06:29 AM
  #8209  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
why do you think drivers want a console shifter instead of a column shifter?
I prefer the column shifter on my Tundra over console shifters. Console shifter arrangements typically take up a lot of area that I prefer open.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; Dec 9, 2025 at 06:31 AM.
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 06:30 AM
  #8210  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Thats just silly lol. The solution to what they were trying to solve is a column shifter. Ford was trying to give truck buyers what they wanted though which was a console shifter.
again, it folds out of the way because the center console cover folds back on itself to create a very large flat work desk.



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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 07:06 AM
  #8211  
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Originally Posted by swajames
again, it folds out of the way because the center console cover folds back on itself to create a very large flat work desk.
Which makes total sense as it creates a work area or a place to put your laptop...a work area
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 07:08 AM
  #8212  
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Originally Posted by Allen K
Drive in this morning was brutal. Got as low as 9F during parts of the drive. I also made the mistake of pulling into the self wash bay this morning to get the salt off. Got the salt off but the Rivian is a little crunchy . Water froze fast at 16F


Damn 😞
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 07:25 AM
  #8213  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Yeah I'm the consumer and I want what I want and I buy what I prefer. You are the same way, as is everyone.

because you're the arbiter of all that is good, better, or makes sense, etc.

it isn't change for the sake of change... a shifter takes up space, especially one on the console. tesla's philosophy is minimalism and having the car do as many things for you as possible. don't like that, guess it's not for you. screen shifting is certainly not a big ordeal. people unable to do it shouldn't be driving or should at least be paying attention to whether they put the car in forward or reverse or park. the car can even do it for you in many situations (either auto shift or fsd).
Its my opinion, you have your opinion and both are fine. I don't agree with you, and thats fine. You like Teslas control design philosophy and I don't. IMO much of it is change for the sake of change and the only way its better is its cheaper to manufacture. That isn't compelling to me.

do you know what 'swipe' is on your iphone? i'm stunned at how many users don't know of the feature which speeds up typing dramatically.
Yep, I don't care for it personally.

seems like a great safety feature then. if she couldn't figure that out, maybe she shouldn't be driving and maybe she'd been drinking too.
She was totally sober, but maybe the design was just poor because someone was unable to figure out how to put the car in gear. You can't in one breath say simplicity is better and then also say complexity is better lol. Which is it?

IMO something is well designed when someone just intuitively knows how to use it when they try to use it. "Learning curves" indicate poor design.

because one famous guy died by doing something monumentally stupid, it was bad. got it.
Actually there were many accidents linked to misuse of that poorly designed shifter, that was just the famous one.

again you just don't like change. you want features you won't use and for other things to not change because you don't like something different. that's your prerogative of course but i don't think your preferences should be forced on everyone.
I don't dislike change at all, I just don't like change for the sake of change. I like things that are well designed not designed simply to be different. Look at all the complaining out in the world about these changes and the placing of controls in screens...I'm hardly alone. Nobody is forcing their preferences on anybody, I'm just suggesting that carmakers would have more success with EVs if they made them more similar to what most consumers are used to. They agree because thats what they are doing.

If you put a poll out there to vehicle owners and asked if they preferred physical controls or screen based controls, do you honestly think screen based controls would be the majority vote?

great that you have the solution for every problem. and why do you think drivers want a console shifter instead of a column shifter?
Its been my observation that pickup drivers prefer a console shifter, I think thats why Ford went to such legnths to keep a console shifter when they could have just out a column shifter on it.

Originally Posted by swajames
again, it folds out of the way because the center console cover folds back on itself to create a very large flat work desk.
Oh I'm aware.

Last edited by SW17LS; Dec 9, 2025 at 07:40 AM.
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:14 AM
  #8214  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
If you put a poll out there to vehicle owners and asked if they preferred physical controls or screen based controls, do you honestly think screen based controls would be the majority vote?
So I decided to do a little searching into this and I came up with some interesting stuff.

JD Power tech survey shows Tesla tech satisfaction slipping as the brand is bought by less tech hungry early adopters:

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ndex-txi-study

Tesla might be losing its tech edge: Historically, Tesla owners have expressed enthusiasm for the brand's technology and rated their vehicles highly, often overlooking quality concerns. However, as Tesla's customer base expands beyond tech-hungry early adopters, this trend is waning as this year’s results show a shift to lower satisfaction across some problematic techs such as direct driver monitoring (score of 7.65).
Interestingly the highest ranking brands are brands that are still comitted to having many physical controls, it will be interesting to see how this changes as BMW rolls out their new much more buttonless iDrive system

Highest-Ranking Brands

Genesis ranks highest overall and highest among premium brands for innovation for a fourth consecutive year, with a score of 584 (on a 1,000-point scale). In the premium segment, Lexus (535) ranks second and BMW (528) ranks third.

Hyundai ranks highest among mass market brands for innovation for a fifth consecutive year, with a score of 518. Kia (499) ranks second and GMC (439) ranks third.
Interesting study:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/drivers-p...ns-study-finds


Drivers can perform simple tasks quicker with buttons, *****, and other physical controls instead of smartphone-inspired systems that rely on touch screens, according to a new study.

Swedish car magazine Vi Bilägare had drivers perform four actions—reset the trip odometer; "activate the heated seat, increase temperature by two degrees, and start the defroster"; turn on the radio and tune it to a specific channel; and "lower the instrument lighting to the lowest level and turn off the center display"—on 12 cars while the vehicle was moving at 68mph (110 km/h).

Eleven of those cars featured touch-screen-based control systems; one was equipped with more traditional controls. (Drivers were able to familiarize themselves with each system before the experiment, Vi Bilägare says, to make the comparison more fair.) Each system's performance was then judged based on how long it took drivers to complete the specified tasks.

Drivers performed the best with more traditional controls, and for the most part, it wasn't even close, Vi Bilägare says. Drivers completed all four tasks in 10 seconds flat with the Volvo V70's physical controls. Only the Dacia Sandero (13.5s), Volvo C40 (13.7), and Subaru Outback (19.4s) came within 10 seconds of the V70. The others came in between 20.2 and 44.9 seconds.

That means the vehicles traveled as far as 0.85 miles before drivers completed all four tasks.



These findings don't measure other problems with touch-screen-based controls. Vi Bilägare notes that some of the systems don't feature backlighting for certain functions, such as climate controls, which makes them difficult to use at night. Others rely on large screens that force drivers to look further away from the road than systems that rely on physical buttons (or smaller touch screens).

One issue that Vi Bilägare doesn't note: touch-screen-based controls can be changed at any time. Tesla modified the controls for the Model 3 with a software update in January, for example, and other manufacturers could do the same. That means drivers accustomed to finding controls in specific places can suddenly find themselves having to navigate an unfamiliar system.

In drive-tests for PCMag's 2022 Best Mobile Networks story, Rob Pegoraro was one of three drivers who completed their routes in a Tesla Model 3. The touch-screen console was one of the electric vehicle's drawbacks, he found.

The right two-thirds of the car's 15-inch display "combines too-small target areas for on-screen controls with a menu hierarchy hiding things as basic as the odometer and side-mirror adjustments," Pegoraro wrote. "Worse yet, the system let me interact with complicated apps like the navigation system—and even open a web browser—while driving. This is despite the car being able to tell (by way of the inactivated passenger airbag) that only a driver was up front."
Popular Mechanics on touchscreens:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...ng-cars-worse/


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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:15 AM
  #8215  
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I sure wish I could swipe on iPad. I’ve been swiping on iPhone for years first started on android.
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:22 AM
  #8216  
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Originally Posted by BayeauxLex
I sure wish I could swipe on iPad. I’ve been swiping on iPhone for years first started on android.
iPad doesn't let you swipe when typing? Even basic Android tablets support swipe. Anyway not meaning to take this thread off topic
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
iPad doesn't let you swipe when typing? Even basic Android tablets support swipe. Anyway not meaning to take this thread off topic
I just googled it and learned how to do it. Only drawback you have to make the keyboard small and switch to the floating keyboard.

you are the man!!
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:51 AM
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hang on a minute! Genesis being the top scoring brand at 584 conveniently overlooks Tesla technically not being included in the survey, but scoring 786 with Rivian also not being technically included but scoring 666. In other words, Tesla is 35% ahead and Rivian 14% ahead, but both excluded due to technical ineligibility.
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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:51 AM
  #8219  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
So I decided to do a little searching into this and I came up with some interesting stuff.

JD Power tech survey shows Tesla tech satisfaction slipping as the brand is bought by less tech hungry early adopters:

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ndex-txi-study
Did you read the doc? It shows Tesla as #1 actually by score.

This exclusion means companies like Genesis or Hyundai win awards despite lower scores because they meet the participation rules. Tesla's direct-to-consumer model and refusal to share data with JD Power prevent them from official awards, though their high scores highlight strong customer satisfaction with their technology and overall experience.
​​​​​​​


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Old Dec 9, 2025 | 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames
hang on a minute! Genesis being the top scoring brand at 584 conveniently overlooks Tesla technically not being included in the survey, but scoring 786 with Rivian also not being technically included but scoring 666. In other words, Tesla is 35% ahead and Rivian 14% ahead, but both excluded due to technical ineligibility.
I was going to weigh in, but I didn't want to be accused of being a biased Tessie
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