General EV Conversation
Tesla nearly died during the financial crisis, had to start from zero when battery cells costs 10x more. And that's scratching the surface of what the company was up against.
Tesla has built out factories on multiple continents, invested in robotics and AI, battery cells, energy storage, is starting to do lithium refining. What has Rivian done with their billions? Where did it go? Rivian's ROI is horrible don't understand the excuses.
I don't want Rivian to die quite the opposite but they need to get it together their cash burn rate is insanity. BTW Rivian has secured two rounds of financing, one from the DOE and from VW totalling $12.2 billion. Tesla's DOE loan was $465 million that's enough to keep the lights on at Rivian for 45 days.
Tesla has built out factories on multiple continents, invested in robotics and AI, battery cells, energy storage, is starting to do lithium refining. What has Rivian done with their billions? Where did it go? Rivian's ROI is horrible don't understand the excuses.
I don't want Rivian to die quite the opposite but they need to get it together their cash burn rate is insanity. BTW Rivian has secured two rounds of financing, one from the DOE and from VW totalling $12.2 billion. Tesla's DOE loan was $465 million that's enough to keep the lights on at Rivian for 45 days.
No one is saying Tesla had it easy, but not correcting for the cost of money or inflation in that chart makes it useless. Might as well throw Ford's first 20 years in there if you're going to do that.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,073
Likes: 3,870
From: Maryland
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
I'm actually surprised Polestar is ahead of Ford. That's a company I have a lot of hopes for. They probably should have never broken off from Volvo, they could have been Volvos "M" brand, but they probably went this route due to limited tax credits at the time
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Ford is making Polestar look good basically.
Agreed, very puzzling move IMO.
So the more I think about Rivian "product lines" being comparable to Tesla building new factories the more ridiculous it seems. Rivian has the same opportunity to sell credits as Tesla.
That's a company I have a lot of hopes for. They probably should have never broken off from Volvo, they could have been Volvos "M" brand, but they probably went this route due to limited tax credits at the time
So the more I think about Rivian "product lines" being comparable to Tesla building new factories the more ridiculous it seems. Rivian has the same opportunity to sell credits as Tesla.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,338
Likes: 327
From: Las Vegas
Tesla is sacred and criticizing them is forbidden on this forum. It gives lex2k a case of the vapors to even consider the possibility that Tesla isn't divine, or that any other automaker is acceptable.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Nah, I'm happy with them but they'll all be phased out eventually 1 for sure this year.
To the chicken little small brained haters here's a list of Toyota's I've owned.
1971 Corolla
1971 Crown (maybe my favourite Toyota ever)
1973 Corona I-6 5-speed (GREAT car)
1976 Celica
1977 Celica
1977 Corolla
1979 Celica Supra
1981 Corolla
1981 Toyota Pickup
1982 Supra
1984 Celica GTS
1984 Toyota Pickup (same as in Back to the Future)
1986 Corolla AE86
1987 Camry 5-speed (multiple) *
1987 Cressida (sold it shortly after purchase, big regret)
1987 MR2
1988 MR2
1990 Camry Wagon*
1991 MR2
1990 Camry V6 5-speed*
1993 Camry*
1995 Camry V6
1998 Sienna*
1998 RAV4*
2000 ES300*
2004 LS (bought and sold, purchased to flip it)
2001 Camry
2006 Highlander*
2009 RAV4*
2018 Sienna*
*current
And some I've forgotten.
To the chicken little small brained haters here's a list of Toyota's I've owned.
1971 Corolla
1971 Crown (maybe my favourite Toyota ever)
1973 Corona I-6 5-speed (GREAT car)
1976 Celica
1977 Celica
1977 Corolla
1979 Celica Supra
1981 Corolla
1981 Toyota Pickup
1982 Supra
1984 Celica GTS
1984 Toyota Pickup (same as in Back to the Future)
1986 Corolla AE86
1987 Camry 5-speed (multiple) *
1987 Cressida (sold it shortly after purchase, big regret)
1987 MR2
1988 MR2
1990 Camry Wagon*
1991 MR2
1990 Camry V6 5-speed*
1993 Camry*
1995 Camry V6
1998 Sienna*
1998 RAV4*
2000 ES300*
2004 LS (bought and sold, purchased to flip it)
2001 Camry
2006 Highlander*
2009 RAV4*
2018 Sienna*
*current
And some I've forgotten.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
Nah, I'm happy with them but they'll all be phased out eventually 1 for sure this year.
To the chicken little small brained haters here's a list of Toyota's I've owned.
1971 Corolla
1971 Crown (maybe my favourite Toyota ever)
1973 Corona I-6 5-speed (GREAT car)
1976 Celica
1977 Celica
1977 Corolla
1979 Celica Supra
1981 Corolla
1981 Toyota Pickup
1982 Supra
1984 Celica GTS
1984 Toyota Pickup (same as in Back to the Future)
1986 Corolla AE86
1987 Camry 5-speed (multiple) *
1987 Cressida (sold it shortly after purchase, big regret)
1987 MR2
1988 MR2
1990 Camry Wagon*
1991 MR2
1990 Camry V6 5-speed*
1993 Camry*
1995 Camry V6
1998 Sienna*
1998 RAV4*
2000 ES300*
2004 LS (bought and sold, purchased to flip it)
2001 Camry
2006 Highlander*
2009 RAV4*
2018 Sienna*
*current
And some I've forgotten.
To the chicken little small brained haters here's a list of Toyota's I've owned.
1971 Corolla
1971 Crown (maybe my favourite Toyota ever)
1973 Corona I-6 5-speed (GREAT car)
1976 Celica
1977 Celica
1977 Corolla
1979 Celica Supra
1981 Corolla
1981 Toyota Pickup
1982 Supra
1984 Celica GTS
1984 Toyota Pickup (same as in Back to the Future)
1986 Corolla AE86
1987 Camry 5-speed (multiple) *
1987 Cressida (sold it shortly after purchase, big regret)
1987 MR2
1988 MR2
1990 Camry Wagon*
1991 MR2
1990 Camry V6 5-speed*
1993 Camry*
1995 Camry V6
1998 Sienna*
1998 RAV4*
2000 ES300*
2004 LS (bought and sold, purchased to flip it)
2001 Camry
2006 Highlander*
2009 RAV4*
2018 Sienna*
*current
And some I've forgotten.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
There are several on that list I'd love to own again but they are becoming nearly impossible to find. Eventually I'll end up owning 1 or 2 FWD Toyota's and hopefully a RWD classic.
For daily driving EVs is so much better. Trust me that is hard to accept from a lifelong Toyota guy.
For daily driving EVs is so much better. Trust me that is hard to accept from a lifelong Toyota guy.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
There are several on that list I'd love to own again but they are becoming nearly impossible to find. Eventually I'll end up owning 1 or 2 FWD Toyota's and hopefully a RWD classic.
For daily driving EVs is so much better. Trust me that is hard to accept from a lifelong Toyota guy.
For daily driving EVs is so much better. Trust me that is hard to accept from a lifelong Toyota guy.
