General EV Conversation
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,962
Likes: 4,291
From: Alberta
Tesla paid off their loan early and a long time ago. Tesla was gross margin negative for 1 quarter in their history Rivian has never been gross margin positive and continue to lose $1 billion + per quarter. So speaking of realizing, you don't on many levels.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,486
Likes: 3,997
From: Maryland
The purpose of this program is to lend money like this for purposes like this. Tesla benefited from it and now so is Rivian.
Last edited by SW17LS; Jan 17, 2025 at 06:57 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,486
Likes: 3,997
From: Maryland
cadillac has launched a 3 row ev suv called vistiq that i quite like.
https://www.cadillac.com/electric/vistiq
https://www.cadillac.com/electric/vistiq
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,962
Likes: 4,291
From: Alberta
This revisionist history that Tesla had it much easier is pretty damn funny.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,656
Likes: 3,748
From: California
cadillac has launched a 3 row ev suv called vistiq that i quite like.
https://youtu.be/UdBf44AkWcI
https://www.cadillac.com/electric/vistiq
https://youtu.be/UdBf44AkWcI
https://www.cadillac.com/electric/vistiq
True, batteries now are way cheaper as are other EV components. Supply chain in general is far more mature and Rivian has the major advantage of a mature charging network, when Tesla started out they had none of the preceding advantages.
This revisionist history that Tesla had it much easier is pretty damn funny.
This revisionist history that Tesla had it much easier is pretty damn funny.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,962
Likes: 4,291
From: Alberta
Tesla has built out factories on multiple continents, invested in robotics and AI, battery cells, energy storage, is starting to do lithium refining. What has Rivian done with their billions? Where did it go? Rivian's ROI is horrible don't understand the excuses.
I don't want Rivian to die quite the opposite but they need to get it together their cash burn rate is insanity. BTW Rivian has secured two rounds of financing, one from the DOE and from VW totalling $12.2 billion. Tesla's DOE loan was $465 million that's enough to keep the lights on at Rivian for 45 days.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,955
Likes: 1,579
From: San Diego, CA
I don’t understand the focus on startup losses. It is what it is, they are what they and it was what it was. Everyone went through the same cycle, and startup costs are enormous. Factory builds, R&D, marketing, everything is front end loaded. From an accounting perspective you can bet your bottom dollar they are trying to maximize those sweet, sweet tax losses which carry forward and can be utilized against current and future profit. Focusing on losses per EV is like asking a new McDonalds franchisee who opened up their restaurant why they lost a couple of million on the first Big Mac they sold.
Last edited by swajames; Jan 17, 2025 at 08:28 PM.