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2013 Tesla Model S (8.5%)
2014 Tesla Model S (7.3%)
2015 Tesla Model S (3.5%)
2011 Nissan LEAF (8.3%)
2012 Nissan LEAF (3.5%)
7% failure in a car that is only 10 years old is NOT insignificant.
More cherry picking because that's what you do. In 2013 The Model S was new with new technology the failure rates reflect that. Things have dramatically improved since then to put it mildly. FYI Tesla is way down the list of warranty cost per vehicle.
@asj2024 if this concerns you why do you drive cars with batteries?
Being concerned does not mean blindly avoiding something. It means being aware of the facts and carefully weighing the pros and cons of any decision before taking the plunge.
I'm not going to push someone without trying to give him the data that I know and the concerns I might have.
Toyota is well known for its historical reliability, and when I bought the Prius they already had enough data and time to improve on the 3rd generation. Same with the RX, which shares similar platform to the NX and Rav4.
Being concerned does not mean blindly avoiding something. It means being aware of the facts and carefully weighing the pros and cons of any decision before taking the plunge.
I'm not going to push someone without trying to give him the data that I know and the concerns I might have.
Toyota is well known for its historical reliability, and when I bought the Prius they already had enough data and time to improve on the 3rd generation. Same with the RX, which shares similar platform to the NX and Rav4.
If Toyota could jump into BEV'S, I have no doubt they would, but for reasons I don't want to get into here, they can't for now, but we definitely know they are in their future. Let's not rehash that.
Also I have no issues with you not wanting a BEV, or even being nervous about current battery tech and doing more research. I say knock yourself out. I've done my research, I'm fully satisfied that my Model Y will easily give me 10 years or more of trouble free usage. By than I'll either be on to my next car, or I'll be gone from this earth
Being concerned does not mean blindly avoiding something. It means being aware of the facts and carefully weighing the pros and cons of any decision before taking the plunge.
I'm not going to push someone without trying to give him the data that I know and the concerns I might have.
Toyota is well known for its historical reliability, and when I bought the Prius they already had enough data and time to improve on the 3rd generation. Same with the RX, which shares similar platform to the NX and Rav4.
Seeing that you had enough confidence to buy a Prius with less track record than Tesla has with batteries, I don’t think your arguments against BEVs from the standpoint of battery replacement make much sense.
Battery #3 and motor #13. Remember it has 2 motors...and replacing an EV motor is nothing like replacing an ICE motor. Thats still 100,000 miles per motor and 400,000 miles per battery. Likely motors failed in pairs, so thats 185,000 miles between motor failures.
I guarantee the cost to run that to 1.2 Million miles is FAR less than it would have cost to run a comparable luxury ICE sedan to 1.2 Million miles. Thats roughly 2,300 tanks of fuel for one, at a cost of $138,000 if we assume $60 a tank. Assuming 40k on brakes which is about right thats 30 brake jobs which on my S560 cost about $2,000, thats $60,000 in brakes where a model S can go 100k miles without a brake job easily. Changing oil every 10k miles thats 120 oil changes at $115 a pop thats $13,800. Even on the million mile Lexus LS400 there were something like 6 transmission rebuilds...
It stated the battery was replaced 3x then it’s on battery #4. Same for the motor, replaced 13x on battery #14. And at the time of print, it was being replaced again. Per the video, he was replacing the motor every 100k miles and 1 battery pack every 300k miles.
What about comparing to cars with lower/less expensive maintenance?
If Toyota could jump into BEV'S, I have no doubt they would, but for reasons I don't want to get into here, they can't for now, but we definitely know they are in their future. Let's not rehash that.
Also I have no issues with you not wanting a BEV, or even being nervous about current battery tech and doing more research. I say knock yourself out. I've done my research, I'm fully satisfied that my Model Y will easily give me 10 years or more of trouble free usage. By than I'll either be on to my next car, or I'll be gone from this earth
I could’ve used a BEV today. I was on the charger 3x today. My range varies between 40-50 miles. Drove to my usual free public level 2 charger I use while my daughter was in practice to find it was out of service. Had to use some gas today for first time is quite a while in my PHEV. Used about 34 miles of gas. I’m still over 2,500 miles on this current tank.
This Tesla held up better after 100,000 miles than my Highlander Hybrid especially the interior. And I would have saved $15,000 not buying gas. Battery is at 90% after 100K.
This Tesla held up better after 100,000 miles than my Highlander Hybrid especially the interior. And I would have saved $15,000 not buying gas. Battery is at 90% after 100K.
I love my Highlander it has over 260,000 miles and hasn't missed a beat. No oil leaks, no odd noises just general maintenance and repairs. It is a bit hard on control arms and the front axles don't last as long as I'd like. On a 3rd set of struts I think. Brakes don't last longer than any gas car I've owned especially the rears. Leather isn't great I've had the drivers lower seat material replaced and it's starting to go again. Good car for rust resistance except the hatch it loves to rust around the glass edge.
But given it's a 2006 I can't complain it's the most solid SUV Toyota has ever made, and probably ever will make can't beat made in Japan Toyota's in their prime. I see no reason the car can't go 400,000+ miles but at that point the hybrid battery could die. Has a timing belt so that's an extra hassle but no timing chain cover leak to deal with.
Outside of gas cost of ownership vs. an EV is competitive. But that gas bill best not to think about it. Okay I will I've owned the car for 210,000 miles it gets overall 27mpg that comes to $36,000 in fuel.
I'll put it this way, if the Model Y was a Toyota I would have bought the same car.
Seeing that you had enough confidence to buy a Prius with less track record than Tesla has with batteries, I don’t think your arguments against BEVs from the standpoint of battery replacement make much sense.
1. Tesla reliability is almost surely less than Toyota. At least one Tesla website is objective enough to cite CR.
Tesla was found to be one of the most unreliable brands in America, according to Consumer Reports’ annual reliability report.
Consumer Reports‘ annual reliability rankings have been released, and with data from 24 brands and over 300,000 vehicles, Tesla fell near the bottom (19/24) along with Mercedes-Benz, Jeep, Volkswagen, GMC, and Chevrolet. Electric vehicles overall also placed poorly, being the second least reliable category of vehicles. Hybrids/plugin hybrids, especially those from Toyota, were found to be the most reliable.
2. Considering possible problems (and especially expensive ones) is not being against something, it's simply being prudent and rational, something people with strong biases cannot do.
3. I thought hard about possible hybrid battery problems before buying the Prius, and now the RX450h+. Like many ICE drivers, the battery was something I researched, especially replacement costs.
Even now, I try not to kid people about potential problems, telling them about how much it would cost to replace. Personal anecdotes is far less useful and accurate than statistical data. My Prius lasted 15 years and 172k miles on original batteries, but quite a few others did not. The cost to replace used to be in the low thousands, though I've seen lower costs nowadays (upper hundreds), perhaps due to large pool of replacement parts.
And yes as EVs get older they too will become affordable old cars. Plus, like AMIRZA said the old ICE cars aren’t going anywhere.
@asj2024 if this concerns you why do you drive cars with batteries?
Affordable to buy but not run if battery goes bad, you can’t just take it to local mechanic and put new one in for few hundred bucks. Most repairs on older American and Japanese cars are very cheap.
At the end of the day - cars will be like iphones, change out every few years and throw away. Great for car manufacturers but much more expensive proposition for consumers.
Affordable to buy but not run if battery goes bad, you can’t just take it to local mechanic and put new one in for few hundred bucks. Most repairs on older American and Japanese cars are very cheap.
At the end of the day - cars will be like iphones, change out every few years and throw away. Great for car manufacturers but much more expensive proposition for consumers.
I thought I would do something a little different here, and go back in time and turn back the clock 7 years. This is post from May 17th, 2017 from some cocky youngster:
That post didn't age very well. But what's most embarrassing about it, is I wrote it There are thankfully not very many more like it, but just the same, know that some posts don't age well, and once they are on the internet, they are forever
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Mar 21, 2024 at 08:21 AM.
There are thankfully not very many more like it, but just the same, know that some posts don't age well, and once they are on the internet, they are forever
