I've driven plenty. That wasn't really my point, anyway. I meant the driving experience vs ICE. Your other points didn't really address anything I said. Just some hand-waving.

From the perspective of the utility engineer, it is. In California, peak charging demand is likely to more than double by 2030 if EV owners opted to charge in the evening at home. Simply put, we don't have the infrastructure for everyone to be cranking their A/C during the day, and cranking their EV chargers at night. It can only support the fringe market that it currently is.

Of course they will. It'll be just like charging an iphone, or running your A/C. Planet of the humans.

It was actually the taxpayer that spent the billions... in the form of tax credits to Tesla.

Yes, expand the grid. But when fossil fuels create about 60% of the nation’s electrical grid in the first place, and 20% from nuclear, aren't we just coming full circle?

EV market unsustainable, ergo Toyota is not "done for".

 

This completely ignores the definition of the word "peak". Peak usage is during the hottest part of the day, into the evening when people get home from work (for those that still go to work). Usage at night is a pale, tiny fraction of this. Adding a bunch of EVs that charge overnight will increase nighttime usage so that it's a larger fraction of peak usage. But it doesn't all of a sudden make the overnight hours the peak period. That would require everyone to replace their cars with EVs AND remove their air conditioners from their homes.

 

Good for you. Just FYI, Toyota changed their opinion and now FCEVs are just for commercial use.

 

You can generally use reader view to get around any paywall.

Hand-waving.

No, can you please quantify it for us within the context of the load that 350 million EV's in the US will have?

But the grid is powered almost entirely by fossil fuels and nuclear in the first place. Doh!

My point is the business model is unsustainable without huge subsidies.

 

You're just exposing yourself with this post. OP, right? Sounds like you've got an agenda.

 

because lithium mining is so 'clean'

 

Not really. The point is that with enough EV adoption, there will no longer be some super secret special charging time that nobody else knows about. Folks will come home and in the late afternoon, during peak demand, they will charge their EV's.

 

Don't forget they have to strip mine the Congo just to get the cobalt.

 

Only if they hate money.

 

but i believe the cars can be set to charge at specific times regardless of when plugged in. so if someone comes home at 5:30p say and plugs in, the car may not actually start charging until midnight.

 

But aren't we talking about everyone owning an EV here? Or did I miss something. I agree that EV market can probably exist on the fringe like it currently is.

 

I must have been delusional when I said Gavin Newsom announced all new vehicle sales would be EVs by 2035 and then days later told people in CA not to charge their EVs because the grid cannot support it. The sun was up then and that was some of the issue in CA because air conditioning alone puts a huge load on the grid which is partially supported by one remaining nuke plant in state.

I have some direct experience with it through work and I’m not trying to pull some ‘I know better than you’ thing, but the industry knows it’s a huge challenge.

If you look up who is really pushing EV charging, you may find it interesting or you probably already know. Fossil fuel involvement goes beyond using diesel fuel to run the generators to supply power to the chargers.

Back to infrastructure, heading from CA to NV, there is a large solar panel farm. I watch YouTube videos on the EV owner experience because we need to know and I saw a video where a guy went to a charge station not far from the solar panel field. There was no power for the chargers and a tow truck was involved. Point being, the infrastructure is clearly not fine if, even if you can collect and store the solar energy, you still can’t get it to the charge sites.

I guess the solar example I also quoted in this response was for in home charging and it works there now, but even with incentives to install solar, the solar home charging scenario is still a game for wealthy people.

 

I see. So the EV charging game is going to mirror the airline carry-on one. Finding the optimal charging time will be like playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey.

 

Its a declining market is my point, so when developing a new platform of vehicle, it just makes sense for them to go where the growth is. Remember, its a business. Those people who are driving sedans will drive a crossover, their market research has shown them that.

Its not that simple...and I can't teach you the nuances of capital in a business context in a forum post...you wouldn't listen anyways.

So you've gone from having "been in" a Rivian and a Taycan to having driven plenty of EVs....come on...be honest.

The driving experience vs ICE is a moot point because ICE is DOA. There will be no more pure ICE cars, the only comparison for the future is EV vs fuel economy focused hybrids. Like it or not, cars like I am driving right now are not long for this world.

EVs are different than ICE cars, but they are fun in a unique way. The power delivery of even a slow EV is a lot of fun...very linear and satisfying...

Then they need to get upgrading, and they will.

It takes less energy to charge an EV than it does to run an air conditioner, and only 61% of homes in the US had air conditioning in 1980, today its 93%. Grid is fine with upgrades. This will be fine.

Not even a little bit, the reduction in CO2 production not having combustion engine far outweighs any increase in emissions from additional power generation. Additional power generation will largely be sustainable energy anyways.

Why do you think building an EV is unsustainable but building an ICE isnt?

 

You can set chargers to only charge at off peak hours and/or to throttle power distribution up/down depending on time of day or peak/non peak use. You can also change pricing for public stations so a driver can still charge at peak hours, but it will cost more per unit of energy.

I don’t know whether a driver can control that from the car side. I understood that EVs have limits to how much charge they can accept at any time, but do not care what time it is. On that, I could be wrong as I am not on the vehicle manufacturer side of industry.