Its because its political...

 

That depends on how much the companies in these industries pay in taxes. If a company pays more in taxes than it receives back from the Government, it's probably a stretch to say that they are "subsidized" as such. That was especially the case before the 2017 tax bill...the bill dropped the maximum corporate tax rate from between 35-38% down to 21%...so, all else equal, today, perhaps, a better argument can be made that they are subsidized.

 

I wouldn't be against it if there was an actual EV sedan comparable to an Accord or Camry that I'd be interested in buying. So far there is nothing but awful CUV's or sub compact little things that are awfully expensive for what they are.

That and the charging issues for a lot of people that have been dissected to death repeatedly on this board.

I'd be thrilled if Honda had an electric Accord.

 

Even fossil fuels and ICE's today, to large extent, can also be considered "clean"...although not necessarly renewable. The average new ICE gas-powered vehicle, in the U.S. today, produces less than 1% of the emissions of the average 1960s-vintage, pre-emission-control vehicle. And even that's not good enough for some people.

 

Has nothing to do with taxes, the government props up every industry in some way...mine included.

The reality is cars like the Camry and Accord are the past. They aren't what buyers want anymore, buyers want CUVs. CUVs are also much easier to make into EVs than sedans because of the need to store the batteries in the floor...the height of a CUV makes hiding that easier.

 

They still sell a bunch of those sedans. Not everybody wants to roll around in a lame CUV, even though I'm one who bought one lol. I can't imagine a world where they are literally no sedans on the road.

They shouldn't abandon this segment that still wants a nice sedan.

 

money can turn a lot of weak minded people or easily bought people into puppets that are paid to spew nonsense. But it only works if their audience is uneducated on the matter at hand.

 

The point I was making was that, either way, it is money-in vs. money-out. If the subsidy from the Government is less than the company's tax bill, then the company loses money on the deal, and the "subsidy" is effectively worthless.

And, even when there is a true subsidy (when the company effectively makes money on the deal), it is often for a reason......many firms simply could not exist on Laissez-Faire/free-markets alone....the markets are too small for them.

The tobacco industry is a prime example. Millions of people (for obvious health reasons) have given up the use of tobacco over the last several decades, many fewer are starting the use of it, and the size of the market has drastically fallen to where it alone cannot support the industry.

 

100x cleaner doesn't mean clean. If you doubt that go inhale some exhaust gasses for 30 seconds see how you feel. Petrol engine exhaust contains CO2, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, benzene (causes cancer) and a whole bunch of other volatile organic compounds. That's just from the car doesn't take into account the toxins emitted from making gasoline.

 

I’m starting to question more than just your “opinion” on this topic. You say it’s not good enough for some people? Only SOME???? If you are in an enclosed space with the cleanest ICE car running how long do you think YOUR OWN BODY would be “good enough” with it?? There’s no such thing as a “clean“ fatality because that’s the end result for ANYBODY not “some”. All thanks to that “clean” ICE vehicle.

 

I thought we were talking about Toyota? lol
I'm not gong down the clean air angle on here because we all have strong opinions on that stuff and I won't participate in it.

Anyway, I believe Toyota was 100% in the right direction with the fuel cells.

Reason 1: power on demand
Reason 2: fast refill
Reason 3: no batteries needed, VERY HEAVY BATTERIES aka the opposite of an elegant design.

Using batteries is a huge step backwards in my opinion and why I am interested in EV's but have never been excited about it- because it's NOT new.

Yes, the Hydrogen fuel cell requires more energy, we have nuclear and so what...
With fuel cell technology in it's infancy I can't imagine the exciting things to come..

I'll put it this way, the hydrogen fuel cell is only a primitive fuel cell to get things going but the interest wasn't there(for many reasons I suspect) and we can't expect Toyota to build the car AND the world's infrastructure too, that's expecting a little much. lol

Only hope I see is battery technology coming full circle and advancements in solid state batteries will lead to light weight solid fuel sources and we will end up back at a fuel cell technology anyway.
A fuel cell that does not need electrolysis to create hydrogen but a proper fuel cell.
'
PS- don't forget the astronomical task and cost of upgrading millions of miles of copper to plug everyone in. The hydrogen can be made next door to the power plant requiring no extra infrastructure build out of so it could be a wash even tho a Hydrogen fuel cell may take 2x the power. A conversion of existing gas stations is all that would be needed- yes costly too. No free lunch. lol

 

What does this mean?
Mirai wins this one but you can't fill it at home, or at the mall, or at a hotel etc.
Mirai has the same curb weight as a Model 3 but has far less interior space.
Fuel cells have been around a very long time.
See above.
Who is going to pay for it, you?

H2 production facility looks like this, won't be seeing one of these in place of a gas station.



You decide what looks like the better platform

 

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Please everyone, I'm not here to "win" at anything or for deposition, just ideas is all I have and I come here with empty pockets so this is my own work.
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Power on demand: Whether Ice or EV or Fuel Cell, it's what we want.

That's cool. I'm ok with topping off my tank at the store tho.

True but that's for now. Toyota's fuel cell is a primitive form(just a baby) in beginning stages requiring to carry on board hydrogen but fuel cells of the future will not need any of this.
To take it one step further, the copper running to our homes for electric is already an obsolete infrastructure technology.
This too will be replaced with fuel cells, the kind that run for years using a solid state fuel source- like nuclear but without the radiation aka a proper fuel cell.

They have been around for a little while and in early infancy in the scope of things.
Just my opinion but batteries will run into a brick wall at the chemistry level and I think the next steps in battery technology will actually lead to solid state fuel source instead, no charging will be needed.

(My theory)

cheap shot bro.
The same people who paid for my local gas station and the electrical switch gear down the road from my house, we the customers who are buying the service and products. lol

That goes next to the power plant.
My local station will have the H2.

It's what we have now but imagine in a hundred years, if humanity lives that long. lol

 

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