Toyota done for?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,482
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From: N/A
What? Lol no.
The big part of why Toyota sales is down is supply chain issues.
Try walking in and getting any of their hybrid vehicles under 50k at a dealership, the rav4 prime last I heard is a 2 year wait, sienna 1 year wait.
Just go to any Toyota dealer and see how empty their lots still are.
The big part of why Toyota sales is down is supply chain issues.
Try walking in and getting any of their hybrid vehicles under 50k at a dealership, the rav4 prime last I heard is a 2 year wait, sienna 1 year wait.
Just go to any Toyota dealer and see how empty their lots still are.
Toyota is too big to die, but right now they are going through what the Detroit Big 3 went through in the 70s, as it was none other than Toyota (and the other Japanese companies) that kicked their *** back then and stole their market share, while the Detroit companies continued to make outdated vehicles for brand loyalists rather than competitive products. Complacency is a dangerous thing.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 490
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From: Georgia
The supply chain issues and Toyota's poor showing in EV's go hand-in-hand. The Rav4 Prime has that long of a wait specifically because Toyota's weak supply chain can't even give them a sufficient amount of lithium ion batteries to work with. And if they can't even get enough raw materials to make the tiny 18.1 kWH battery in sufficient volume for a hybrid, then their chances of making even bigger batteries for even higher volumes of EV's is even more dubious. This is demonstrated by the absolutely pathetic sales numbers of the BZ4X and its Subaru variant.
Toyota is too big to die, but right now they are going through what the Detroit Big 3 went through in the 70s, as it was none other than Toyota (and the other Japanese companies) that kicked their *** back then and stole their market share, while the Detroit companies continued to make outdated vehicles for brand loyalists rather than competitive products. Complacency is a dangerous thing.
Toyota is too big to die, but right now they are going through what the Detroit Big 3 went through in the 70s, as it was none other than Toyota (and the other Japanese companies) that kicked their *** back then and stole their market share, while the Detroit companies continued to make outdated vehicles for brand loyalists rather than competitive products. Complacency is a dangerous thing.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,570
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From: CA, Mid OC
The real problem is that the industry itself may be going the wrong way with EVs. Toyota was actually correct in trying to develop fuel-cell vehicles, because millions of people do not have access to outdoor or garage-recharging-plugs for EVs. It would be much easier for them to simply drive to a hydrogen-refill station....assuming those stations were built and we had an infrastructure for them. And what has ALWAYS concerned me the most about EVs...as the number of EVs on the road continues to outpace our ability to profile enough power for them from the country's electrical grids, it could (?) lead to brownouts or blackouts from excessive electrical demand, particularly if millions people are trying to recharge their EVs at the same time they are trying to heat or cool their home, with electric furnaces/AC units in extreme temperatures. That possibility is simply being overlooked in the mad rush to convert the industry.
In the end, Toyota may have been correct in resisting the push to EVs....particularly if we sit around in hot or cold homes without any power.
In the end, Toyota may have been correct in resisting the push to EVs....particularly if we sit around in hot or cold homes without any power.
The clickbait is amusing. It’s the way of social media. Find an agenda, then find one thing that supports that agenda. Say it loudly and ignore anything that contradicts it. Click, click, money for next to nothing.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2023
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From: Georgia
Your point about the grid being insufficient for the additional demand is my biggest concern about EV adoption. Considering that the governor of CA told people not to charge their EVs just days after announcing all new car sales in CA will be EVs by 2035 points out the issue. Is anyone really working on the infrastructure? Hard to say but I doubt much is being done at the moment.
The clickbait is amusing. It’s the way of social media. Find an agenda, then find one thing that supports that agenda. Say it loudly and ignore anything that contradicts it. Click, click, money for next to nothing.
The clickbait is amusing. It’s the way of social media. Find an agenda, then find one thing that supports that agenda. Say it loudly and ignore anything that contradicts it. Click, click, money for next to nothing.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,217
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Your point about the grid being insufficient for the additional demand is my biggest concern about EV adoption. Considering that the governor of CA told people not to charge their EVs just days after announcing all new car sales in CA will be EVs by 2035 points out the issue. Is anyone really working on the infrastructure? Hard to say but I doubt much is being done at the moment.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jun 1, 2023 at 05:28 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2018
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Your point about the grid being insufficient for the additional demand is my biggest concern about EV adoption. Considering that the governor of CA told people not to charge their EVs just days after announcing all new car sales in CA will be EVs by 2035 points out the issue. Is anyone really working on the infrastructure? Hard to say but I doubt much is being done at the moment.
The clickbait is amusing. It’s the way of social media. Find an agenda, then find one thing that supports that agenda. Say it loudly and ignore anything that contradicts it. Click, click, money for next to nothing.
The clickbait is amusing. It’s the way of social media. Find an agenda, then find one thing that supports that agenda. Say it loudly and ignore anything that contradicts it. Click, click, money for next to nothing.
Regarding Toyota, weren't they the top-selling automaker the last two years and running?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,217
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Correct. They sold some 22 million vehicles last year......which is why they are unlikely to fold anytime soon. GM was once the world's largest-seller in the 1960s, and it took them 40 years, even under terrible management, to fold and need a Government buyout.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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From: Georgia
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2018
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Indeed, and that bailout was relatively unrelated to their business model. Rather, it was a direct result of the Subprime Crisis. Japan is much more fiscally conservative than the US - almost to a fault.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...3-i-cant-wait/
Motorola keeps churning out phones across all price brackets, from flagships in the Edge series to clamshell foldables in the Razr lineup. But barely any have managed to stand out against established rivals like Samsung.
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toyota won't disappear, but i think they're in real trouble. their latest grand highlander, tacoma, corolla cross, are decent in their segments, but the sequoia and tundra are not class leading.
as for lexus, well, they're 'ok' but obviously the german brands and now genesis are constant threats all around, and they all have EVs already. lexus has the rz... weak.
besides cars, tesla built an entire national recharging network... how incredible is that? they've built a ton in other parts of the world too.
the majority of the public is not likely to buy an ev any time soon, but in 5 years... could be a very different picture.
as for lexus, well, they're 'ok' but obviously the german brands and now genesis are constant threats all around, and they all have EVs already. lexus has the rz... weak.
besides cars, tesla built an entire national recharging network... how incredible is that? they've built a ton in other parts of the world too.
the majority of the public is not likely to buy an ev any time soon, but in 5 years... could be a very different picture.
Using California as an example, they represent roughly 40% of all EV purchases in the country, but only 2% of total vehicle sales within that state. Given their reliance on rolling blackouts to prevent total grid failure, I'm not sure how they'd be able to support such a colossal shift in only 5 years. Just look at their Bullet Train boondoggle to get an idea of what that would look like.
Now extrapolate that out to the rest of the United States.
Last edited by nitroracer; Jun 1, 2023 at 06:27 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Tesla is for sure ahead of the game with respect to charging stations, but the overall EV charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate, and likley to remain that way. My research tells me that if anything, Hybrids will be the clear winner at the end of the day. Toyota has plenty of those.
I was just down in southern WV where I am from last weekend, and lots of EVs around from out of state, and there are now 4 chargers in town...people are figuring it out
Last edited by SW17LS; Jun 1, 2023 at 06:21 AM.
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As far as "driving experience", your opinion is noted.
Last edited by nitroracer; Jun 1, 2023 at 06:38 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
I firmly believe that I am one car purchase away from going EV, in fact I may be driving my last ICE car depending on how long I keep it. Only issue for me will be traveling to WV which I do in my car 3-4 times a year. All other travel is done in our family car.