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Yeah, thats a big negatory on the renting a house vs owning a house. You won't find many people who are sorry they bought a house decades ago. Plus theres the instability of having someone else in charge of where you live. I don't want to have to move because someone wants me to move or to sell their house or not be able to do what I want with where I live. Then there's the fact that owning a home doesn't preclude you from investing outside of that, and the costs of financing a home don't result in much higher costs than renting a similar home in many parts of the country.
That's pretty much the bottom line.
Why did we leave California? We hated it (had great times though) and wanted to buy a house. Luckily we bought ours about a year before everything just went through the roof in Knoxville. I mean I'm talking houses you could buy for $200,000 7-10 years ago are easily half a million now, EASILY. If not more. People actually get away with selling split levels for welllll over half a million. This one down the road sold for over 700k. Split levels are the crappiest houses ever, no offense to anyone. People lipstick them up and they sell. But the terrible bones of those houses remain. I can't stand split levels.
A few people out there in CA were like "Why would you want that..." My answer was, "Well, I don't want to be 65 years old with nothing to show for it other than an apartment I don't own." Back then we had way less money, but even if we did....... who pays like $2500 rent (or just, big bucks in big city rent) and still invests? When you could be paying a mortgage and literally be getting wealthy just from living in your house?
Plenty of cheaper houses out there than that, and even then you're still not in control of your own housing situation which is a total non starter for me. I keep an eye on the markets nationwide, there isn't a market in the country where an average family home must cost $2.5-3M, even in the Bay Area you can buy a decent family house for under $1M. You may have to commute some and Its not going to be 5,000 square feet, or even 4,000 square feet but you don't need that. A family of 4 can very comfortably live in a 2,500 square foot house.
I'm sure you know what's going on in a general way, but James is dead on about those numbers. I just looked up my friend's house again. 2beds 1baths 1,200 sq ft, built in 1950s. It's zestimated a little over 1.5M. It's in an OK neighborhood, not even nice.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Yeah, thats a big negatory on the renting a house vs owning a house. You won't find many people who are sorry they bought a house decades ago. Plus theres the instability of having someone else in charge of where you live. I don't want to have to move because someone wants me to move or to sell their house or not be able to do what I want with where I live. Then there's the fact that owning a home doesn't preclude you from investing outside of that, and the costs of financing a home don't result in much higher costs than renting a similar home in many parts of the country.
Of course if someone buys a house and sleeps in it for 30 years, they will gain some money no doubt. But if s/he knows how to invest, how much is that gain compared to investment gain over 30 years? Have you looked at it this way? As you know, some areas house prices go up significantly while others are not even that significant when compared to stock gain. Even in this expensive part of the US, my friend's house was zestimated at 1.2M in 2016, peaked at 1.8M in 2022 and now hovering at 1.5M. So does someone really gain or lose over this time span? Now, compare that to someone that rented a similar house. S/he used the down payment to invest and kept adding monthly expenses over the decade, how much does this person gain? Buying a house is not as bad as buying a car and it is usually a good thing to do, but it doesn't always give you gain or biggest gain. IMO, houses are not much different from good stocks. They both will earn you money. And they both need time. But sometimes you don't have all that time. What if you haven't paid down your house to make money but lose your job? What if your job requires you to move? Now what? Keep this house and paying for two mortgages?
People who rent do not normally invest anything like that, plus for the vast majority of the nation buying is better. Some odd areas like those mentioned can cause renting to make sense in a way but only if you wanted to live in those areas for some reason.
You would always make more money spending that same amount on a much larger house elsewhere if you can give up the location "advantage"
Oh I'm not making any of this up. The San Jose metro was the first region in the country where the median price for a SFH exceeded $2m about this time last year. We just left a San Jose neighborhood where most houses were under 2300 sq ft, were mostly built in the mid 1960s, and were generally between 2 and 3.5m. And that wasn't one of the hottest neighborhoods. The rent for a lot less than it costs to service a typical mortgage.
There are still areas within the San Jose metro area though where you can buy a house that doesn't cost over $2M. Thats the median, there are many cheaper homes thats my point. Even with rent being cheaper, that still doesn't mean I would have any interest in renting a house for all the reasons I have already laid out. I don't want somebody else having the final say in my living arrangement, I want to be in control of that myself. Whether that is more expensive or not.
Originally Posted by 1111GS
I'm sure you know what's going on in a general way, but James is dead on about those numbers. I just looked up my friend's house again. 2beds 1baths 1,200 sq ft, built in 1950s. It's zestimated a little over 1.5M. It's in an OK neighborhood, not even nice.
Of course if someone buys a house and sleeps in it for 30 years, they will gain some money no doubt. But if s/he knows how to invest, how much is that gain compared to investment gain over 30 years? Have you looked at it this way? As you know, some areas house prices go up significantly while others are not even that significant when compared to stock gain. Even in this expensive part of the US, my friend's house was zestimated at 1.2M in 2016, peaked at 1.8M in 2022 and now hovering at 1.5M. So does someone really gain or lose over this time span? Now, compare that to someone that rented a similar house. S/he used the down payment to invest and kept adding monthly expenses over the decade, how much does this person gain? Buying a house is not as bad as buying a car and it is usually a good thing to do, but it doesn't always give you gain or biggest gain. IMO, houses are not much different from good stocks. They both will earn you money. And they both need time. But sometimes you don't have all that time. What if you haven't paid down your house to make money but lose your job? What if your job requires you to move? Now what? Keep this house and paying for two mortgages?
At the crux of it its an argument that just doesn't make sense. Owning a house vs renting doesn't keep you from being able to invest, and you don't have to put a lot down on a house. Your home is not only an investment, it is an investment but thats not even the most important thing that it is. You can't live in an mutual fund, and outside of owning a home there is just no way to have security in your housing situation or control over your situation. If its just me thats one thing but with a family and pets etc, no thanks. I don't want to get a notice in the mail that I have to move in 60 days as a 43 year old man with a family lol. My BIL and SIL just went through this, they sold their house because he started a business and they needed the cash out of it. Now they are renting ay $7k a month in a big house in NJ. They just went through hell with the owner who suddenly decided he wanted to sell and they had to find another 5BR house with room for all of them that would take their dog in their school system with 60 days to do that and they wound up in something not ideal because of time constraints and what was available and lost their pool and have no yard or outdoor space which they loved. No thanks.
At least when you purchase a home some of what you are paying is coming back to you in equity when rent is 100% cost, and you've got a property that will go up in value over time if you own it long enough, and you have housing that is completely under your own control. You can paint it and modify it however you want, get whatever pets you want, and you can't be rolled out of it. Renting an apartment from a complex is different than renting a home from some landlord who might be great, or might not be great. The bigger thing for me is now I have another whole family who's needs and decisions impact me and my family. Pass.
If you get relocated and have to move, just sell it. If you have to take a loss, take a loss. Or keep it and rent it out if the numbers make sense to do that. Not a big deal.
Originally Posted by Striker223
People who rent do not normally invest anything like that, plus for the vast majority of the nation buying is better. Some odd areas like those mentioned can cause renting to make sense in a way but only if you wanted to live in those areas for some reason.
You would always make more money spending that same amount on a much larger house elsewhere if you can give up the location "advantage"
All you have to do is look at the average net worth of renters vs buyers...
So the Pacifica. She turned it back on and it started but the CEL was still on. She got home and plugged it in and it was charging. I unplugged it and started it and the CEL is off...
I drove it around hard and it never came back on.
It did store a code:
Looks like a HV battery glitch. We'll see if it comes back on again
So not to labor the point, but in the examples I gave you're looking at maybe 6K per month rent for houses like that but you are looking at likely 15K or more on a mortgage plus insurance and tax - and that's assuming a 500K downpayment (20%).
There are whole websites and subreddits dedicated to Bay Area rent vs buy economics, and it's nowhere near as clear cut as it might normally be elsewhere. The rent/mortgage delta can be surprisingly large.
So not to labor the point, but in the examples I gave you're looking at maybe 6K per month rent for houses like that but you are looking at likely 15K or more on a mortgage plus insurance and tax - and that's assuming a 500K downpayment (20%).
There are whole websites and subreddits dedicated to Bay Area rent vs buy economics, and it's nowhere near as clear cut as it might normally be elsewhere. The rent/mortgage delta can be surprisingly large.
I get it, but I'm still living in someone else's home that they control. I would rather buy something much more modest that I control. I own a property management company and I deal with these landlords all the time, I'm not putting my family's housing in their hands LOL
Like I said, death first before I answer to anyone....ANYONE when it comes to my home.
That's worth homeownership alone. I can and will do whatever I want to my home and property. Yesterday I yelled at a solicitor to "Get off my property..." after he wouldn't listen to my first "NO. Saying those words also is worth homeownership alone, lol. You hear it on movies but wait til you actually say it yourself, lmao.
People who rent lie and say "Oh I could invest xxxx much on top of my rent" but who really does that (as opposed to just paying a mortgage payment)? None other than the already wealthy is my guess. Like how celebs rent houses, etc.
So not to labor the point, but in the examples I gave you're looking at maybe 6K per month rent for houses like that but you are looking at likely 15K or more on a mortgage plus insurance and tax - and that's assuming a 500K downpayment (20%).
There are whole websites and subreddits dedicated to Bay Area rent vs buy economics, and it's nowhere near as clear cut as it might normally be elsewhere. The rent/mortgage delta can be surprisingly large.
Dropped the Black D4 W12 off at Audi for the warranty repair of the TVD this morning. Gave the loaner Q5 to my wife and she disliked it so much she found me at micro center after work to swap it for the 4.0 lol!
Unbelievably cheap feeling and sounding for a 60k car All is plastic Everything rattles and creaks
So much of the interior is basic plastic, leather is low grade as well in the few places it's even real. Not even going to comment on suspension or powertrain lol!
Coastal California is wayyyyyy different than the rest of the nation.
Nobody we knew owned in CA. You have to be rich. You can't just "get a job and buy a home", at least nowhere in LA county west of Fairfax. Rich, rich doctors and lawyers even have trouble buying homes out there.... it's mind-boggling. I've read so many posts of a couple making like 600-800k a year and still not able to afford a house in West LA.
Conversely, I can't think of one friend of mine who doesn't own a home here in Knoxville. And that's how the majority of the nation is. Even the poorest of my friends, one who works at Costco 40 hours a week, owns a home. Now we could afford a house out there somewhere in LA county but it wouldn't be right off Sunset and below Mulholland like where our apartment was, that's for sure. It would be in some meh area, halfway nice at best. Pass!
Dropped the Black D4 W12 off at Audi for the warranty repair of the TVD this morning. Gave the loaner Q5 to my wife and she disliked it so much she found me at micro center after work to swap it for the 4.0 lol!
Unbelievably cheap feeling and sounding for a 60k car All is plastic Everything rattles and creaks
So much of the interior is basic plastic, leather is low grade as well in the few places it's even real. Not even going to comment on suspension or powertrain lol!
$60k ain’t what it used to be…that’s pretty cheap for a luxury branded car now.
$60k ain’t what it used to be…that’s pretty cheap for a luxury branded car now.
Yeah but it still shocks me every time I get one of these, I know in my head that it's only a "$40k" car but still.....I would truly rather have a Jeep GC in terms of interior quality.
Engine is loud and under powered but that's just what it is
Last edited by Striker223; Sep 2, 2025 at 05:50 PM.
Coastal California is wayyyyyy different than the rest of the nation. ...
Conversely, I can't think of one friend of mine who doesn't own a home here in Knoxville. And that's how the majority of the nation is.
holy generalizations Batman. Glad your friends all own homes but I'm sure there's tons of people in Knoxville who don't. You obviously haven't looked at prices in Hawaii, the whole northeast, many other cities. They're all far out of reach for a ' first time home buyer'. But rents have skyrocketed too sadly.
