Originally Posted by RXSF

I think both sides are making assumptions but my pov did not make a statement of saving lives. The tweet says FSD just saved lives. How do you save a life, when you don't know whether a human driver would have done the same thing? You also don't know for sure FSD will do it 100% of the time. When I use FSD, it doesn't always do the same thing every time on the same street.

Originally Posted by swajames

you’re both making the same poor assumption. A human driver might indeed have reacted the same way, but equally might have been distracted and missed it, with potentially fatal results. The entire point is that the car is always paying attention and less likely to miss the hazard. If you were able to rerun this specific scenario multiple times, chances are the car would outperform a random selection of human drivers.

Originally Posted by jrmckinley

I don't have FSD activated yet on my new-to-me Model S, but I had it on my MYP for 3 years and both cars are HW 3. One thing I'm noticing on the S that certainly seems different (and I can't figure out why) is it doesn't do a good job of finding the correct speed limit signs on certain roads. For example, I was driving on the Turnpike yesterday (a major interstate here in FL with a 70mph speed limit) and near one of the left-exit rest areas, the camera picked up the 15mph speed limit for the off ramp to the rest area... even though I was not exiting and I was going 80mph as I passed it. So the speed limit should have indicated 70mph, not 15 mph. It made me wonder if I had FSD on.... would the car have slowed down to 15-20 mph? That would be a VERY bad thing.

I also noticed when I did get off on an exit, the car visual was showing me the 70mph speed limit sign, even though I was on an off ramp with a pretty hefty turn where the speed limit is absolutely NOT 70mph. In reality you should really be going 45-55mph on those turns. So again, I wondered what FSD would have done in that scenario. It's visually showing me the last speed limit sign it thinks it saw, but it's not correct.

I might activate it just to see what happens. I can't understand why the S would do a worse job of detecting speed limit signs compared to the Y.. but that was a 20 mile drive and I noticed those 2 potential mistakes. Anyone else ever see that on any Tesla model?

Originally Posted by 1111GS

This is like saying if you flip the coin long enough, you'll get 50% head. Lol. FSD is wonderful but in no way it's better than an alert human being. And of course I speak from my own personal experience.

When I had my Tesla and was using FSD, the car kept slowing down to 45 or so on a 65 limit freeway at certain spots. It's my daily route so I checked for speed limit signs and it was not the signs. It's 65 all the way. So I thought it was Tesla. Then I got this new BMW and notice the same thing on this route. So I'm skeptical about cars reading speed signs. It may have something tied to their systems.

Originally Posted by 1111GS

This is like saying if you flip the coin long enough, you'll get 50% head. Lol. FSD is wonderful but in no way it's better than an alert human being. And of course I speak from my own personal experience.

Originally Posted by swajames

It is hard to overstate how asinine this is. The entire point is that it isn't a coin flip. The technology is always on and always improving, and people aren't and can't be alert all the time.

Originally Posted by 1111GS

FSD is wonderful but in no way it's better than an alert human being. And of course I speak from my own personal experience.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

To be fair...

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

arbiter of fairness to the rescue

what will it take?

Originally Posted by AMIRZA786

^ This ^. Does FSD make mistakes? Yes for sure it does, but way, way way less then a human being. There is no way a human being can have 100 percent attention on the road, there is no way a human being can see through 8 camera's all at once multitasking constantly. I would say people are more lucky than not making it home intact accident free

Originally Posted by swajames

Absolutely this. FSD is looking all around and is paying constant attention to what's happening behind you or to the side of you as well as your forward view. People are generally hyper-focused on what's up ahead, with only occasional glances in the mirrors. That's just how we're wired.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I'm going to bet on my own ability, experience and instincts over a computer every time.

Originally Posted by swajames

There's no getting away from it. People aren't and can't be alert all the time. Driver distraction is a very real thing.

I believe driving standards are declining, and I believe self-driving technology is getting better. We're already past the point where technology is more capable than the average driver. I was out with my wife yesterday, and saw first hand the inability of a large number of drivers to properly navigate a roundabout. It is almost comically easy to get a driver's license in the US, and what we see each and every day reflects that.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

i am happy to accept (and have observed repeatedly) that fsd right now is way better at driving than i am. i'm sure i'm not the only one that's thinking of other things while driving, or singing a tune, or checking out the other cars or people, or reminding myself of a task i need to do, or countless other things.

now is fsd perfect, of course not. and does fsd make DIFFERENT mistakes than humans do, yes. does fsd make mistakes humans typically don't, yes. but do humans make more mistakes, absolutely 100%. and of course fsd still requires driver 'supervision' which doesn't bother me. it's less "naggy" than it used to be, but still keeps an eye on you the driver.