And the biggest single driver for that wasn’t the manufacturers placing bad bets or because they were building bad electric vehicles. It was the election of an administration that has treated electric vehicles as a political football and as a means to an end.

 

I don’t disagree. Much of success is luck…

 

My post isn’t an attack on EV. My post is saying Toyotas strategy has been correct. They are slowly bringing EVs to market. They have avoided the disasters Nissan has with zero EV. They have avoided the disaster of Honda late with EV. They have avoided too munch investment in EV like Mercedes and Porsche etc who are all pulling back.

You cannot really compare a brand like Toyota who sells a variety of powertrains to companies that just sell one type. Completely different companies.

 

That’s a hindsight-powered revision of history. They were way off the pace. Still are in reality. It was the single act of the election of an anti-EV administration, the reasons for same being nothing to do with the cars themselves but perceived political gain, that bailed out their actual lack of a vision and actual lack of a strategy. To wit: Billions of Toyota shareholder capital flushed down the ******* via the focus on the failed hydrogen future. If the election had gone the other way they are still holding the baby and are still looking like chumps. There’s another election the year after next. The pendulum may yet swing.

bottom line: even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.

 

Toyotas EVs so far have been very conservative. Lower range, lower power but quality has been there. They have sold in very small numbers. Toyota being their usual cautious self has worked. For a hardcore EV buyer the products are likely also rans and not seriously considered. Toyota is okay with that for now.

Solid State is brought up more by the media speculating. We haven’t heard much officially as of late.

My comment on EV hype was seeing the entire globe jumping on the EV bandwagon a few years ago that by 2030 everything will be EV when Toyota knew it wasn’t feasible. I agree with that. Finite sources, rising costs, limited charging stations, energy concerns, consumer adoption being slow etc etc. Now we have seen a reversal on strategies because 2025/2030/2035 does not look at all feasible for a majority adoption. Maybe by 2050. I am of the opinion over time EV will overtake ICE eventually. Most people don’t like cars or traffic and see cars and driving as an appliance or annoyance. It makes perfect sense. Or they wont own a car and just call a robotaxi or waymo etc.

 

EV adoption was not going to meet the targets the manufacturers stated a few years ago. Those hype targets were not based in reality. In the USA EV purchases have slowed due to the tax credit reduction for sure. Why do you need a tax credit? The vehicle isn’t good enough on its merits?

Worldwide EV adoption is growing but not at the pace initially projected. Only China but that is a completely different economic system.

 

Unless you've held TM for many decades it's hard to imagine a worse stock. In 20 years you are up maybe 3x this is a horrendous performance. Holding the NASDAQ in that time gave you 10x.

 

Unless you’re building your own roads and extracting and refining your own subsidy-free gasoline to offer just two examples you’re enjoying those sweet, sweet federal dollars along with the best of them so spare us the platitudes. There’s nothing wrong with government incentives driving preferred outcomes if those preferred outcomes are broadly in the general best interest of society at large.

 

The products are fine, and in many cases, great. It's perception and stigma that is the issue in many parts of this country. As for the tax credit, it's simple psychology. When you were getting a (major) discount before, it's hard to see the value anymore when it's back at full price.

 

Dividends and it’s safe. Their stock is up and just behind Tesla in automotive which has no basis in reality. Honda is $26 or so. Ford $12 I think. So my comment is to show their stock is better than most in automotive. It’s not to say buy it or it’s a great stock lol.’

 

I don’t disagree with you. I think that’s up for debate that EVs are better for society. Going back to the hype comment and seeing sales fall off a cliff since the credit left.There are many positives with an EV and maybe they should market/advertise and sell on those merits than relying on credits. We have seen it already happen the last few months.

 

You brought up the price of TM as some sort of positive indicator of how the company is doing. The problem with Toyota is they are a zero growth company, their only ambition is to sell 10 million cars/year that's it. If that means hydrogen, EV, hybrid, EVs with solid state batteries or where ever Toyota says the winds are blowing at the time it doesn't matter there is no where for Toyota to grow given their current ambitions and business model.

Tesla's share price is party based on revenue and also on speculation, the speculative part is because the company is heavily into real world AI. Toyota isn't and have no plans to get into the fastest growing business sector they just want to make cars. You are very satisfied with this, as an investor I have zero interest in TM for the above reasons among others. Also my gains in TSLA feel very real.

 

the thing toyota did masterfully was push the whole “electrification” buzzword (classic “FUD” strategy), hyping hybrids more than anything, and making it the “sensible” choice, which aligns perfectly with toyota/lexus’ customers. most of toyota’s products are now hybrids. they sell hardly any ev’s. we’ll see how the new highlander ev does. the new ch-r ev does not appear to be selling well at all.

for most people, filling up with gas is fine. the great range that hybrids provide is great. and hybrids have become smoother than ever. so i think most consumers just think “ev’s = limited range, hassle charging on trips, expensive, weird, not mainstream”. if i’m right about this, ev’s will have a hard time making much of a big dent in new car sales until those perceptions change.

older people don’t want change. younger people don’t want or can’t afford cars.

 

Come on lol. You hold up Teslas stock performance to defend things going on with Tesla all the time.

Toyota is clearly a very successful and stable company, them being that has nothing to do with Tesla. There is nothing wrong with being a stable, profitable company that wants to sell 10M cars and isn’t concerned about growth beyond that. Stability and reliability has its place. Not everything has to be compared with Tesla.

As an investor you should have diversity, having everything in high growth companies is incredibly risky. Not something I’m interested in. Some sure, but not everything and at some point when my goals are met…nothing.

 

Why are some of you threatened by a data point of Toyotas stock price? I didn’t say it was better or to invest. I simply said it’s solid and a part of their current success.

There is more growth opportunity when you start from zero and your percentages will look amazing compared to a legacy who moves slower and safer. The fact is Toyota bet wisely on hybrids and it’s paying off handsomely.