General EV Conversation
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,098
Likes: 3,871
From: Maryland
Bringing it back to EVs and incentives, in business we use incentives all the time to get behavior we want. Even if those incentives are so great you can't say no. Examples, builders give closing cost credits so huge if you use their lender and their title company that the buyer can't say no. By law, the buyer gets to choose their lender and title company but if they are leaving $25,000 on the table by going with someone else...that just isn't worth it. We incentivize agents to give up space in the brokerage business all the time. We have limited brick and mortar office space, so we give higher splits and marketing money etc to agents who give up their physical office space.
I don't see how society is harmed by the government giving a tax break to people who buy energy efficient or environmentally efficient things. We give them for windows, appliances, building materials...why not cars? The net result is we have homes that are more energy efficient and the consumer gets a tax break to help offset the higher initial cost of the better materials and products. With cars, we have more efficient and less polluting cars on the road and we have given a tax break to help consumers offset the higher initial cost of buying an EV. I don't see the difference.
I don't see how society is harmed by the government giving a tax break to people who buy energy efficient or environmentally efficient things. We give them for windows, appliances, building materials...why not cars? The net result is we have homes that are more energy efficient and the consumer gets a tax break to help offset the higher initial cost of the better materials and products. With cars, we have more efficient and less polluting cars on the road and we have given a tax break to help consumers offset the higher initial cost of buying an EV. I don't see the difference.
Last edited by SW17LS; Oct 19, 2025 at 07:14 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
Bringing it back to EVs and incentives, in business we use incentives all the time to get behavior we want. Even if those incentives are so great you can't say no. Examples, builders give closing cost credits so huge if you use their lender and their title company that the buyer can't say no. By law, the buyer gets to choose their lender and title company but if they are leaving $25,000 on the table by going with someone else...that just isn't worth it. We incentivize agents to give up space in the brokerage business all the time. We have limited brick and mortar office space, so we give higher splits and marketing money etc to agents who give up their physical office space.
I don't see how society is harmed by the government giving a tax break to people who buy energy efficient or environmentally efficient things. We give them for windows, appliances, building materials...why not cars? The net result is we have homes that are more energy efficient and the consumer gets a tax break to help offset the higher initial cost of the better materials and products. With cars, we have more efficient and less polluting cars on the road and we have given a tax break to help consumers offset the higher initial cost of buying an EV. I don't see the difference.
I don't see how society is harmed by the government giving a tax break to people who buy energy efficient or environmentally efficient things. We give them for windows, appliances, building materials...why not cars? The net result is we have homes that are more energy efficient and the consumer gets a tax break to help offset the higher initial cost of the better materials and products. With cars, we have more efficient and less polluting cars on the road and we have given a tax break to help consumers offset the higher initial cost of buying an EV. I don't see the difference.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
This thread has gone heavily off topic if you know what I mean.
Back on topic at least to an extent I had a conversation with Grok about building out a 10,000 square mile solar array (cell surface area not total infrastructure area). The math works out to about 12 years to get it done, would supply 3x more power than the United States currently uses. Cost will be $7 trillion, payback time 20-25 years. This is doable. And in before the skeptics will howl about solar panels being dirty, this array would be 75% cleaner out of the gate that rate would increase over time.
It's depressing we didn't start on this 10 years ago, instead still burning coal and natural gas to generate power. Sunk cost fallacy is super powerful here. The opportunity for the auto sector is unbelievable, after paying the pollution tax to make EVs they become 100% clean.
Back on topic at least to an extent I had a conversation with Grok about building out a 10,000 square mile solar array (cell surface area not total infrastructure area). The math works out to about 12 years to get it done, would supply 3x more power than the United States currently uses. Cost will be $7 trillion, payback time 20-25 years. This is doable. And in before the skeptics will howl about solar panels being dirty, this array would be 75% cleaner out of the gate that rate would increase over time.
It's depressing we didn't start on this 10 years ago, instead still burning coal and natural gas to generate power. Sunk cost fallacy is super powerful here. The opportunity for the auto sector is unbelievable, after paying the pollution tax to make EVs they become 100% clean.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,098
Likes: 3,871
From: Maryland
It's depressing we didn't start on this 10 years ago, instead still burning coal and natural gas to generate power. Sunk cost fallacy is super powerful here. The opportunity for the auto sector is unbelievable, after paying the pollution tax to make EVs they become 100% clean.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,126
Likes: 1,560
From: FL
This thread has gone heavily off topic if you know what I mean.
Back on topic at least to an extent I had a conversation with Grok about building out a 10,000 square mile solar array (cell surface area not total infrastructure area). The math works out to about 12 years to get it done, would supply 3x more power than the United States currently uses. Cost will be $7 trillion, payback time 20-25 years. This is doable. And in before the skeptics will howl about solar panels being dirty, this array would be 75% cleaner out of the gate that rate would increase over time.
It's depressing we didn't start on this 10 years ago, instead still burning coal and natural gas to generate power. Sunk cost fallacy is super powerful here. The opportunity for the auto sector is unbelievable, after paying the pollution tax to make EVs they become 100% clean.
Back on topic at least to an extent I had a conversation with Grok about building out a 10,000 square mile solar array (cell surface area not total infrastructure area). The math works out to about 12 years to get it done, would supply 3x more power than the United States currently uses. Cost will be $7 trillion, payback time 20-25 years. This is doable. And in before the skeptics will howl about solar panels being dirty, this array would be 75% cleaner out of the gate that rate would increase over time.
It's depressing we didn't start on this 10 years ago, instead still burning coal and natural gas to generate power. Sunk cost fallacy is super powerful here. The opportunity for the auto sector is unbelievable, after paying the pollution tax to make EVs they become 100% clean.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,126
Likes: 1,560
From: FL
This is a video that I enjoyed that made this same point. EV critics say that an EV is environmentally more damaging to make than an ICE, and this person agrees that is true but points out that after as quickly as just a couple years that totally flips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MicJ46YX5Lg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MicJ46YX5Lg
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Incentives are often counterproductive because they feed layers of bureaucracy instead of giving value to the consumer. Look at what happened recently in New Jersey a Tesla Supercharger stop was ripped out and replaced by a piece of crap that barely works paid for by yours truly.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
GX 550 vs TX 550: Best 3-Row Luxury Lexus Family Hauler
Michael S. Palmer
9 Best Lexus Models You Can Buy for Half Price (And 1 You Shouldn't!)
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus NX Buyer's Guide: Models, Features, Prices & More!
Brett Foote
Top 10 Reasons to Buy a Lexus TX 550h+ (& 3 Reasons to AVOID!)
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyota Models of the 1990s RANKED!
Joe Kucinski
10 Great Toyotas That Could Have Been Lexus Models
Joe Kucinski
Morning.
I will admit I was super pissed reading the back and forth banter here. (no wonder why the debate forums were removed)
The fact that it got reported so many times by so many people. (not just the people who said they were reporting) Is just infuriating...Ya'all are gown-***-adults!
Carry on. Be civil and stay on topic.
I will admit I was super pissed reading the back and forth banter here. (no wonder why the debate forums were removed)
The fact that it got reported so many times by so many people. (not just the people who said they were reporting) Is just infuriating...Ya'all are gown-***-adults!
Carry on. Be civil and stay on topic.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
I'm just telling you, the software issues are no joke. I loved my Polestar, but having to reboot my infotainment system once or twice a week becomes an annoyance. One you can live with, but still an annoyance
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
I wouldn't say that the issues I had were a nightmare, but stuff would stop working, like for example the HVAC, Google maps etc. Reboot generally fixed it. I have to say that despite that, I loved my Polestar, and would have gotten another one as a commuter had the price been more competitive. By the time my lease had ended, you could only get the fully loaded models that were way above my budget
