General EV Conversation
people are not "free to choose" as long as their taxes and incentives on specific products.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't afford the ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't afford the ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
Last edited by bitkahuna; Oct 18, 2025 at 08:18 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,677
Likes: 3,757
From: California
people are not "free to choose" as long as their taxes and incentives on specific products.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't that ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't that ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 637
From: SC
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,975
Likes: 4,300
From: Alberta
Those are choices people should be free to make. You can eat donuts and still be healthy. Luckily we have great medical interventions now that can put an end to obesity easily.
Believing in freedom means believing in people’s rights to make decisions for themselves you think are wrong. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death or drive a big inefficient gas car, that’s their right.
Believing in freedom means believing in people’s rights to make decisions for themselves you think are wrong. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death or drive a big inefficient gas car, that’s their right.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,985
Likes: 1,607
From: San Diego, CA
people are not "free to choose" as long as their taxes and incentives on specific products.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't that ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
in norway, the ONLY reason ev's are now pretty much the only cars sold, is because of the MASSIVE sales tax on non-ev cars. most people can't that ice car taxes even if they wanted one. they are not free to choose. they have no choice.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,227
Likes: 1,589
From: FL
Those are choices people should be free to make. You can eat donuts and still be healthy. Luckily we have great medical interventions now that can put an end to obesity easily.
Believing in freedom means believing in people’s rights to make decisions for themselves you think are wrong. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death or drive a big inefficient gas car, that’s their right.
Believing in freedom means believing in people’s rights to make decisions for themselves you think are wrong. If somebody wants to eat themselves to death or drive a big inefficient gas car, that’s their right.
You have to at least acknowledge, though, that a) Norway started their EV transition over 30 years ago and things have evolved to their current state gradually over time, b) it's what average Norwegians reportedly seem to want and like, and c) the massive EV infrastructure in Norway making EVs the default choice there is effectively no different than the polar opposite position we see in certain US states, where the minimal EV infrastructure makes ICE ownership the only viable choice.
tesla has obviously benefited from tax breaks and incentives and built the largest charging network and EA only exists as punishment for vw over dieselgate.
a very mixed, messy, and largely inefficient patchwork of incentives and penalties.
as for “average norweigans” liking their situation, i doubt they always like low ev range in frigid weather but the alternative is too expensive for them. i’m sure they also like looking like a global leader in reducing emissions when again, their hypocrisy means they export the emissions.
Last edited by bitkahuna; Oct 18, 2025 at 08:27 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,975
Likes: 4,300
From: Alberta
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 637
From: SC
Lots of people conflate socialism and welfare. Norway is a welfare state funded by fossil fuels. Completely different from socialism.
They are a small rich country. Nothing they do really scales to countries as large and diverse as the US.
They are a small rich country. Nothing they do really scales to countries as large and diverse as the US.
Last edited by Bob04; Oct 18, 2025 at 08:56 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,624
Likes: 4,044
From: Maryland
IMO incentivizing is totally different than forcing. I don’t want the government forcing anybody to buy a certain kind of car, but I have no issue with providing incentives to trigger changes in consumer behavior.