Originally Posted by AMIRZA786

I think we should all take a step back and not make this a "this is better than that car" or "a silent vehicle is a better experience". Because we are EV enthusiasts and this is an EV thread, you're going to get the silent treatment. Get it? Nevermind 😂.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I can't agree with this at all. A BMW i7, Mercedes EQS, Rolls Royce Spectre, these are incredible luxury cars that deliver incredible driving experiences. The i7 is simply the most luxurious driving vehicle I have ever driven. Its a better luxury car than my S580, the only reason I didnt get one was travel to WV, and the challenging styling.



Its still not the same thing. An EV can never deliver the kind of visceral feel and thrill you get out of something like an M3. It just isn't the same. Thats not to say its not worthwhile, but if you're somebody who wants a car with that kind of visceral mechanical feel, no EV is going to match that.



"Feels" are a huge part of what makes a car like that what it is. Its all about "feels"



Depends on the car and the user, but its not a car you see 4 of at every light is the point, thats part of why its not the same. Anyways your LC isn't ugly, there are a lot of beautiful cars out there. I also wouldn't call the Model 3 "great looking", its okay looking, kinda awkward and ho hum sedan looking. I consider the Model Y ugly IMO.



I don't live in europe, so what happens in europe doesn't mean much to me. In any event, how many Lexus LC taxis are there?



Uh huh, I'll believe it when I see it.


Yeah I was behind the times on that one!



I agree 100% the current C63 is not a competitor. Their engine choice ruined it, and sales have totally gone through the floor. It does however still create visceral feeling and mechanical engagement.

They're just different...you're going to have a hard time convincing people that love high end sports cars that they should buy an EV because in that sort of car the EV really doesn't deliver a comparable or better experience. Mainstream cars, luxury cars are a different story. EVs make great driving appliances, but when it comes to them being engaging machines that attract somebody who wants a sports car experience its a different matter. Certainly no 4 door mainstream looking sedan like a Model 3 is going to do that no matter how fast it is. Even an M3 or E63 or S63 or M5 etc doesn't really replace the kind of experience you get in a true 2 door sports car.

Originally Posted by Blaze876

I Think you, I and others seem to just have a love for the mechanical feel and sound of things. I have a hard time understanding how EV lovers don't believe that the sound and feel of an ICE makes the experience so much better. I guess EV lovers are on the other spectrum where they don't understand why we want "noise" and the shifting of gears because of its inefficiency.

I was just in the market for a new to me daily driver. I narrowed it down to a Cayenne from 2011-2018. I ended up getting a 2014 Cayenne GTS. My wife wanted me to get the updated model 2015-2018. But those GTS came with a v6 turbo. Friends ask why I didn't go with a turbo v8 then since I don't want a v6, but I think the NA V8 sounds so much better. So for me I didn't care about straight line speed, I chose sound over speed....something some EV owners will never understand lol.

Some of us just seem to appreciate the mechanical feel of things.

Originally Posted by Blaze876

I Think you, I and others seem to just have a love for the mechanical feel and sound of things. I have a hard time understanding how EV lovers don't believe that the sound and feel of an ICE makes the experience so much better. I guess EV lovers are on the other spectrum where they don't understand why we want "noise" and the shifting of gears because of its inefficiency.

I was just in the market for a new to me daily driver. I narrowed it down to a Cayenne from 2011-2018. I ended up getting a 2014 Cayenne GTS. My wife wanted me to get the updated model 2015-2018. But those GTS came with a v6 turbo. Friends ask why I didn't go with a turbo v8 then since I don't want a v6, but I think the NA V8 sounds so much better. So for me I didn't care about straight line speed, I chose sound over speed....something some EV owners will never understand lol.

Some of us just seem to appreciate the mechanical feel of things.

Originally Posted by Blaze876

I Think you, I and others seem to just have a love for the mechanical feel and sound of things. I have a hard time understanding how EV lovers don't believe that the sound and feel of an ICE makes the experience so much better. I guess EV lovers are on the other spectrum where they don't understand why we want "noise" and the shifting of gears because of its inefficiency.

I was just in the market for a new to me daily driver. I narrowed it down to a Cayenne from 2011-2018. I ended up getting a 2014 Cayenne GTS. My wife wanted me to get the updated model 2015-2018. But those GTS came with a v6 turbo. Friends ask why I didn't go with a turbo v8 then since I don't want a v6, but I think the NA V8 sounds so much better. So for me I didn't care about straight line speed, I chose sound over speed....something some EV owners will never understand lol.

Some of us just seem to appreciate the mechanical feel of things.

Originally Posted by AMIRZA786

So here is another reality that you should really consider. Everything is going either Hybrid, or BEV. Even high end sports cars are getting electric assist. Regular passenger commuters are downsizing to four cylinders. In the next 5 or 10 years from now, you'll only be able to buy either a hybrid or an EV. In those high end sports cars where you crave that exhaust and visceral road feel, it will all be artificial. Even my friends M4 Comp I spent the day with, the exhaust was piped into the cabin, and the road feel was, let's say created. The cars you are talking about will be a thing of the past, and only available to those who held on to their older cars

Originally Posted by FrankReynoldsCPA

We're very painfully aware of that. We mourn what we're losing on that front.

I'll be in an EV someday for sure. I also plan to have my family's 67 Firebird 400 restored for that analog craving.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Then he's nuts IMO. But...an M3 is not a $100k+ sports car. I would take an M3 over a Model 3 or Y every day of the week though, way more interesting and desirable car IMO, and an entirely different car. Nobody is cross shopping the two.

My question is, would you have ever bought a $100k+ car in the first place? My guess is no...and I would also question how many $100k+ sports cars you've driven. A car of that caliber offers SO much more to the driver than simply being fast in a straight line and handling well.

This is part of what frustrates me about Tesla hype, its a great car but its not THE best car ever made and it doesn't outclass EVERY car the way you're saying it does. Its not a 911. Its not an S Class. Its not an Aston Martin. The list goes on and on. What it is is an incredibly well packaged and fun family sedan or family crossover that makes a much more appealing daily driver than most other things you can buy for the price. Why can't that be enough? When you make crazy claims like "its makes $100k sports cars irrelevant and my friend is going to trade his 911 in on one", those statements are just absurd.

Originally Posted by DanTeSlagX

Teslas kinda ruin cars in general for you. You really start to stop caring about other “nice” cars when it makes everything else feel like a tractor. The cars are very easy to love with, silent and smooth. They are tin cans, but are getting better, and the seats are great and you get the driving position of an air cooled 911 in the 3.

While I’d love a 911, the new performance BMW’s don’t do a thing for me. The main thing that interest me in gas cars now are mainly overbuilt, cushy, attention-to-details tanks like J-Vin Lexus vehicles.


I still hang out with a bunch of the old import and street race guys from my youth. About half of them have teslas or EV’s now and have been completely recalibrated out of their performance gassers. We’re talking extremely well done hellcats, AMG’s, GT-R’s etc. all sold and they guys drive performance EV’s and some slow rock crawler or are restoring a B-Body wagon etc.



I’ll add that for all the mesmerizing performance, most EV’s fall on their face if you get on it at high speed. Most of them are direct drive with no gearing, so flooring it at 80mph is quick but you’ll have to know what other vehicles are capable of. I wouldn’t be surprised if a LC500 could pull a model 3 P from a highway roll (but the M3P will smoke anything but exotics and purpose built drag machines from a stop or anything under 30mph)


but yeah, I don’t have any interest in 80% of the cars that used to make me hard.