General Car Conversation
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,212
Likes: 460
From: Long Island
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,382
Likes: 357
From: ON/NY
Personally for me. I like body on frame vehicles, more specifically Toyota and Lexus. And for last 25 years, the only way to get body on frame Lexus was with a V8 and full time 4WD. Engines were always truck engines and not the exact same engine from a car. I also like how he cab is more upright. For the most part, you aren’t forced to have a 3rd row.. I also like the ride of them. Full size space tire. I could go on and on and on…
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,382
Likes: 357
From: ON/NY
I do not like crossovers or understand the point of them. Two years ago, I went to Europe with a buddy and our rental car was a Citroen crossover. It was overall a low quality vehicle, but also handled poorly and had the same interior space as a compact. It was also too tall to fit in some parking garages such as the one at the hotel in Nürnberg.
s.
s.
This year, I went again with the same buddy and we had a Hyundai Kona hybrid. It was less roomy than my Civic in that, with the rear seat folded down, you could to recline the front seat much. My friend who is 6’0” could not recline at all.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Oct 27, 2023 at 08:19 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
Personally for me. I like body on frame vehicles, more specifically Toyota and Lexus. And for last 25 years, the only way to get body on frame Lexus was with a V8 and full time 4WD. Engines were always truck engines and not the exact same engine from a car. I also like how he cab is more upright. For the most part, you aren’t forced to have a 3rd row.. I also like the ride of them. Full size space tire. I could go on and on and on…
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,382
Likes: 357
From: ON/NY
The appeal of crossovers makes sense too. Usually they are cheaper and more fuel efficient . I really like the design of the new Lexus RX. On the other hand, the new Land Cruiser with here cloth seats is nice 
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Oct 27, 2023 at 08:35 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,962
Likes: 4,288
From: Alberta
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers
Joe Kucinski
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
GX 550 vs TX 550: Best 3-Row Luxury Lexus Family Hauler
Michael S. Palmer
9 Best Lexus Models You Can Buy for Half Price (And 1 You Shouldn't!)
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus NX Buyer's Guide: Models, Features, Prices & More!
Brett Foote
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,328
Likes: 236
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,580
Likes: 87
From: CA, Mid OC
Perhaps I am blind to the appeal of crossovers because I live in SoCal and 4wd is not needed often. The two I drove were only fwd and they were just high, small cars. The autobahn is not a North America driving experience and both crossovers were predictably lethargic because they are base models and don’t have gobs of power.
The Kona was better on the autobahn than the Citroen and also better on the smaller, twistier roads, but it was still not good. Neither vehicle would seat four people with luggage (2 people, 2 checked bags, 2 carry on bags removes one back seat because you have to fold one down), so the tall compact car handling deficiency combined with lack of interior space was not great.
I would much rather have a wagon.
The Kona was better on the autobahn than the Citroen and also better on the smaller, twistier roads, but it was still not good. Neither vehicle would seat four people with luggage (2 people, 2 checked bags, 2 carry on bags removes one back seat because you have to fold one down), so the tall compact car handling deficiency combined with lack of interior space was not great.
I would much rather have a wagon.
take yesterday... at the office we've been piling up old pc's, a giant laser printer, other pieces of dead gear. i've wanted to take them to the e-recycling center but for some reason it's been closed... another biz in town though gets an e-recycling pick up every few months and said it was fine for me to bring all that to them, so i folded the back seats down and did. no problem.
in a vehicle with "much less capacity" i definitely would not "do just fine" and would not have been "happy" having to make multiple trips.
the ioniq isn't huge, but it's fine for what i need.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
initially i was going to write you don't know what you're talking about but i'll rephrase as you're not aware of what i actually NEED to do fairly often.
take yesterday... at the office we've been piling up old pc's, a giant laser printer, other pieces of dead gear. i've wanted to take them to the e-recycling center but for some reason it's been closed... another biz in town though gets an e-recycling pick up every few months and said it was fine for me to bring all that to them, so i folded the back seats down and did. no problem.
in a vehicle with "much less capacity" i definitely would not "do just fine" and would not have been "happy" having to make multiple trips.
the ioniq isn't huge, but it's fine for what i need.
take yesterday... at the office we've been piling up old pc's, a giant laser printer, other pieces of dead gear. i've wanted to take them to the e-recycling center but for some reason it's been closed... another biz in town though gets an e-recycling pick up every few months and said it was fine for me to bring all that to them, so i folded the back seats down and did. no problem.
in a vehicle with "much less capacity" i definitely would not "do just fine" and would not have been "happy" having to make multiple trips.
the ioniq isn't huge, but it's fine for what i need.
It’s like saying it would have made sense for me to have a capable high ground clearance 4x4 Jeep Grand Cherokee for years and years because one time over that whole ownership I drove it in heavy snow. In reality, I could have just not done that for a day and a half.
Another case in point, we have a minivan. Do we NEED a minivan? Not at all. I’ve had the Pacifica this week getting the tires replaced and the dent fixed etc and guess what? My wife has done fine with the Mercedes full of kids. She carpooled multiple days in it with 4 kids, she took 4 kids yesterday in it to the pumpkin patch and came home with 5 pumpkins and 4 kids and herself and she did fine. A minivan makes her life easier but she doesn’t NEED one. The Mercedes looks AWFUL inside and out but that’s a different story lol. In reality she could drive a sedan just fine.
With pickup trucks, it’s just the same as all of us, they buy something for the look and capability that they really rarely if ever use.
Last edited by SW17LS; Oct 28, 2023 at 06:21 AM.
CL Community Team
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,417
Likes: 198
From: US
It’s not just you, it’s all of us. We all have cars with much more capability than we need. Do you do that on a regular basis or has that stuff been building for years? If you didn’t have that vehicle to do that with you would have called somebody to come get that stuff, etc. You don’t carry stuff in it that wouldn’t fit in a smaller car on a regular basis, am I wrong?
It’s like saying it would have made sense for me to have a capable high ground clearance 4x4 Jeep Grand Cherokee for years and years because one time over that whole ownership I drove it in heavy snow. In reality, I could have just not done that for a day and a half.
Another case in point, we have a minivan. Do we NEED a minivan? Not at all. I’ve had the Pacifica this week getting the tires replaced and the dent fixed etc and guess what? My wife has done fine with the Mercedes full of kids. She carpooled multiple days in it with 4 kids, she took 4 kids yesterday in it to the pumpkin patch and came home with 5 pumpkins and 4 kids and herself and she did fine. A minivan makes her life easier but she doesn’t NEED one. The Mercedes looks AWFUL inside and out but that’s a different story lol. In reality she could drive a sedan just fine.
With pickup trucks, it’s just the same as all of us, they buy something for the look and capability that they really rarely if ever use.
It’s like saying it would have made sense for me to have a capable high ground clearance 4x4 Jeep Grand Cherokee for years and years because one time over that whole ownership I drove it in heavy snow. In reality, I could have just not done that for a day and a half.
Another case in point, we have a minivan. Do we NEED a minivan? Not at all. I’ve had the Pacifica this week getting the tires replaced and the dent fixed etc and guess what? My wife has done fine with the Mercedes full of kids. She carpooled multiple days in it with 4 kids, she took 4 kids yesterday in it to the pumpkin patch and came home with 5 pumpkins and 4 kids and herself and she did fine. A minivan makes her life easier but she doesn’t NEED one. The Mercedes looks AWFUL inside and out but that’s a different story lol. In reality she could drive a sedan just fine.
With pickup trucks, it’s just the same as all of us, they buy something for the look and capability that they really rarely if ever use.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
Fine is a very subjective word. You could be fine driving an Avalon or Accord or Camry. That can be justified as a wise purchase too. Lol. I know what you mean. I was trying to come up with an American sedan and headed to ford.com. I realized Mustang is the only vehicle closest to sedan they make. Wow... All trucks and SUV/CUV.
Originally Posted by link13
I would much rather have a wagon.
Issue with wagons is they don't have any different capabilities or attributes over a sedan other than cargo capacity, and in America people don't choose a crossover or SUV over a sedan simply for cargo capacity. Wagons don't offer a higher driving position, they don't offer the rugged looks, they don't offer the AWD or the ground clearance or the go anywhere capability that people want even if they never use it. Thats why in the US you see that companies that make wagons only sell them in "SUV-ish" trims like the Cross Country Volvos and All Terrain Mercedes and Outback Subarus...because they are trying to attract US buyers who need that to dissuade them from a crossover. In Europe buyers are much more practical than we are here.
We looked at a beautiful E Class wagon, and my wife was intrigued because she doesn't want to drive a big vehicle she just feels she needs it. The wagon though lacked any of the functionality of a minivan, no roof height for kids to easily move around inside, bench seat in the second row, rear facing third row which the kids would like but they have to be loaded through the hatch, just a non starter.
Do you do that on a regular basis or has that stuff been building for years? If you didn’t have that vehicle to do that with you would have called somebody to come get that stuff, etc. You don’t carry stuff in it that wouldn’t fit in a smaller car on a regular basis, am I wrong?
Another case in point, we have a minivan. Do we NEED a minivan? Not at all. I’ve had the Pacifica this week getting the tires replaced and the dent fixed etc and guess what? My wife has done fine with the Mercedes full of kids. She carpooled multiple days in it with 4 kids, she took 4 kids yesterday in it to the pumpkin patch and came home with 5 pumpkins and 4 kids and herself and she did fine. A minivan makes her life easier but she doesn’t NEED one.
as i think you know, i grew up in england, where most people drove tiny gutless cars because that's all they could afford plus parking is very tight, and gas is hugely expensive due to taxation. so did my fam and others 'get by' with a tiny gutless car? sure. were there things we couldn't do? absolutely, like take much on a family vacation (i really don't know how we did it)
this isn't ours but same kind of car we had when i was a kid.
specs: 141in. long.
engine: .9 or 1.0L engine (rear!)
so that front is a frunk!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillman_Imp
house i grew up in with parents and 3 sisters was, i'm guessing, 1200sq. ft (2 floors, 3 bedrooms).
so i certainly understand need vs. want, what people can get by with... etc.
i left the country for a better life.