100%. They don't even have a proper engine for their flagship, yet they stuffed a V8 in their IS. How do you explain that? Furthermore, lots of people say there's more rear legroom in the ES. That is inexcusable.

They got rid of the GS, the 2013 ES was a joke. I'm not sure what the 2019 is like, but it doesn't really matter. The spindle grille is completely hideous in every way. 2013-15 was okay because it wasn't in full effect.

I worry about Lexus going forward. People are moving onto other brands because they realize that Lexus doesn't innovate and they don't have anything that the big 3 does better. They compete more with Buick and Lincoln than with the Germans.

 

The issues with the 2013 ES were solved in the 2016 refresh. One of my agents has a 2018 ES and its a beautiful car IMO.

 

Back on topic folks

 

I looked at a LS500 again last month, I still can't do it. Too small while being bigger and the 460 is already really close to feeling too small for my tastes to begin with inside. Plus the engine is just......not the right character for the car. It's hard to cruse/be low and slow with it since it behaves strangely down low. It's more of a sport sedan that likes to be pushed but I don't always want to push it.

I would like it to be able to do both types of driving well or at least as well as a 460 does. Interior is fantastic if you get the leather upgrade though...

 

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