Oh Toyota and Lexus have got some probably awesome stuff up their sleeve for sure and it's coming. But yes, long overdue.

I really am hopeful for the rumored 4.0tt V8.

 

I agree. I don't see a lot of leadership from them in the EV segment. Funny, because they definitely were the leader when it came to hybrids, but seemed to back off when it came to full EVs.

They absolutely can be a driving force, but I don't see the initiative to actually get these vehicles past concept and on to market.

 

What part do you disagree with? Do you think they are going to go out of business?

I understand you think there is some sort of "secret development" going on, but I don't see any evidence of that.

Thats the most frustrating thing, they CAN do anything they set their sites on, they just don't have the will under the current leadership. Even hybrids, where they really did lead, nowadays they're not really pushing the envelope. Used to be Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive was THE industry standard, now its similar to what everybody else has.

 

Toyota realizes that EVs at the moment are not viable without huge government incentives meanwhile their hybrids are. Toyota also understands that electricity generation in most of the world is not renewable to the point where an EV will have lower CO2 emissions than their hybrids.

Finally, most people do not want the hassle of finding a charge point to charge their car nor do most people want to have the hassle to install a charger on their garage.

Not sure what your strange secret comment was about but Toyota has an battery electric currently on the market as well as a Lexus and they have a BEV coming off their TNGA-E platform which is shared with other brands.

Toyota works and deals with reality…plus they also must sell cars for profit.

 

I agree this is their thinking, but it is incredibly short sighted and not focused on the long term. Hence why I said we will get to a point where Toyota is just entirely in the industry's rearview mirror.

 

Forget all other manufacturers for a minute.

Toyota says and has confirmed they will have 15 battery electric models by 2025. In 4.5 years.. Toyota also confirms they have 70 electrified models by 2025 as well. Who else will have 15 models four years from now?

Toyota is late to market IMO because they are trying to figure out exactly what will sell.

 

But what are those BEVs going to be? Are they going to be vehicles that get 300+ miles on a charge like we are seeing from other manufacturers? I doubt it. They will be warmed over EV versions of current models with crappy range that nobody will buy.

Toyota should be leading in this field, they should be the ones setting range benchmarks like they set mileage benchmarks for hybrids.

And the fact that Toyota has made this statement negates your concept that Toyota just doesnt see any value in this segment lol. They got caught with their pants down and are playing HUGE catch up, bottom line.

 

that's very different from what you originally wrote: "They're just an old, bloated company who's time has come and gone unfortunately."

if it's secret you wouldn't see evidence.

the new rav4 hybrid, sienna, venza, corolla hybrid, have all done well. even though they don't impress us car enthusiasts, i'd say toyota has read the CURRENT market pretty well.

that seems like a reasonable assessment. and no doubt the national japanese strategic push to use hydrogen is also a factor they can't ignore.

we can all agree toyota/lexus is woefully late to the EV party. let's all hope when they do finally arrive, it's impressive.

 

Not really. Lots of old bloated companies who's time has gone that still exist and make money. They just don't lead in their industries any longer.

Even within those vehicles though there's no innovation. They are just putting the same system essentially they developed 15 years ago into more and more vehicles. Where are the huge gains in mileage and electric range for their hybrids?

Which is why I said we will reach a point where all of a sudden Toyota is still making vehicles for the past generation and not for the future. EVs ARE the future, and Toyota is way, way behind in that tech.

I have my doubts.

 

how has toyota 'lead' much of anything except really high quality manufacturing/reliability? i wouldn't call any toyota "innovative" except the prius which was hideous to me and slow as crap.

doesn't mean much to anyone, but they've redone the platform on just about every vehicle except dinosaurs like the 4runner/gx/lx. while it may not bring 'huge gains' to the consumer, maybe it's lowered their manufacturing costs which in turn either increases their profits or allows them to get more aggressive with pricing, or include more standard equipment, etc. i think you're looking for something that never was.

ya don't say.

i'm sure most have doubts that toyota will make any serious dent in the EV market, but they're the last really big manufacturer that can do so. ford and vw have 'arrived' with fairly competitive offerings (not revolutionary, but decent).

tesla sucked all the air out of the room, not just with actual innovation, but massive, massive hype and fandom and promises of things years in advance of actual delivery. as we know, japanese car companies aren't like that.

problem is at this point, even if toyota came out with a reasonably priced, attractive 500mi. range quick charging mainstream vehicle, would that be considered innovative 'enough'? what in your mind do they have to do?

 

Toyota actually has been historically a very innovative company. It was Toyota that innovated the idea that the Japanese could make a compelling luxury car, and invested a fortune in that with no guarantee of success, Toyota was a huge innovator with hybrid tech and for years NOBODY could touch a Toyota hybrid, and each successive generation would improve considerably. Lexus innovated hybrid tech for luxury and performance instead of just economy, there are lots of other examples.

I've been an enthusiast of this company for 25 years, the innovation was there.

It certainly would help. How about solving some other piece of the EV puzzle? Rapid charging or infrastructure or something like that? They may already be so far behind that they never really catch up. Good example? Honda and hybrids.

 

A 5000lb Camry? Most people do not want a battery electric.

 

Tesla leads Toyota in hardware, software, range, charging, brand image for starters. Anyone think Toyota can make an infotainment system anywhere near what Tesla has? Like all typical auto makers they rely heavily on OEMs that means cobbling together modules and trying to make them all work seamlessly. No hope of being able to do over the air updates to anywhere near the level Tesla does. And Toyota is tied to their dealer network EVs would drastically reduce the revenue stream.

Could go on and on. If Toyota doesn't act soon they are royally ****ed people are not going to accept an "electrified" future that's one of the biggest BS campaigns I've ever seen from any company. Only thing saving Toyota and other legacy auto makers so far is pure EV companies can't make enough cars yet.

And then there is Toyota's love affair with hydrogen vehicles. You have to the most clueless CEO in history to think that is a good strategy, I don't care what the Japanese government is pushing Toyota is a global company.

 

The question is what are they going to want in 10+ years? Other companies have that time horizon out in front of them and Toyota does not.

Using your logic though, why is Toyota coming out with 15 EV models in the next 4.5 years then? If nobody wants them why bother?

Toyota has absolutely dropped the ball here. When FORD is more forward thinking than Toyota...

 

Next time you venture out on the highway...count all the buses, trucks and thousands of cars that drive by...then consider that there is no possible way battery electrics are going to solve all of motoring needs.

Take one Tesla battery...how many hybrids, FCEV, and plug-ins can Toyota make with that one battery? Its a no brainer that battery electrics will not work on a massive scale.