Mercedes EQS flagship
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,856
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
I pretty much buy used for myself, as Toyota/Lexus are highly reliable and have timeless design IMO. But if I was dipping my foot in the EV world for the first time, I would lease. Leasing an EV is a short term commitment, and you would find depending on what you are leasing, the terms etc that you would be at or near breaking even with a paid off ice that's mostly parked. The advantages of owning an EV of course vary from state to state, as in California you get an additional $2,800 back from the state and local utilities. I'm not saying this works for you, but if you live where I live a $50k EV has a huge cost savings over a $50k ice vehicle
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
which you have to quote because it validates your own opinion.
then you must have missed the launch of every corvette and mustang in time because almost always there's VERY strong positive AND negative feelings about them.
Because there's no such thing. It's subjective and car styling is like clothing fashion... some people love, some people, and a lot of people couldn't care less.
Says the arbiter of style.
To me the S has a pretty classic 'coke bottle' design, and has aged well, but to me these days it looks pretty dated.
I don't consider the model 3 to be ugly. But since you do the styling must be 'bad' because it's not universally praised, right?
The Y to me is bad because it's just a jacked up 3. I really had to do a double take when i saw the SAME SEATS just jacked up on 6" tall rails in the car.
But i get it's all about making them as cheap as possible - nothing wrong with that if there's still huge demand which there obviously is.
I don't see what is "right" about styling a car in a way that some people really hate it.
Whats wrong with styling that is universally attractive?
Says the arbiter of style.
To me the S has a pretty classic 'coke bottle' design, and has aged well, but to me these days it looks pretty dated.
I don't consider the model 3 to be ugly. But since you do the styling must be 'bad' because it's not universally praised, right?
The Y to me is bad because it's just a jacked up 3. I really had to do a double take when i saw the SAME SEATS just jacked up on 6" tall rails in the car.
But i get it's all about making them as cheap as possible - nothing wrong with that if there's still huge demand which there obviously is.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
which you have to quote because it validates your own opinion.
then you must have missed the launch of every corvette and mustang in time because almost always there's VERY strong positive AND negative feelings about them.
Because there's no such thing. It's subjective and car styling is like clothing fashion... some people love, some people, and a lot of people couldn't care less.
Says the arbiter of style.
To me the S has a pretty classic 'coke bottle' design, and has aged well, but to me these days it looks pretty dated.
I don't consider the model 3 to be ugly. But since you do the styling must be 'bad' because it's not universally praised, right?
The Y to me is bad because it's just a jacked up 3. I really had to do a double take when i saw the SAME SEATS just jacked up on 6" tall rails in the car.
But i get it's all about making them as cheap as possible - nothing wrong with that if there's still huge demand which there obviously is.
then you must have missed the launch of every corvette and mustang in time because almost always there's VERY strong positive AND negative feelings about them.
Because there's no such thing. It's subjective and car styling is like clothing fashion... some people love, some people, and a lot of people couldn't care less.
Says the arbiter of style.
To me the S has a pretty classic 'coke bottle' design, and has aged well, but to me these days it looks pretty dated.
I don't consider the model 3 to be ugly. But since you do the styling must be 'bad' because it's not universally praised, right?
The Y to me is bad because it's just a jacked up 3. I really had to do a double take when i saw the SAME SEATS just jacked up on 6" tall rails in the car.
But i get it's all about making them as cheap as possible - nothing wrong with that if there's still huge demand which there obviously is.
Whats wrong with styling that is universally attractive?
following up on this... many brands seek to shake things up by doing something controversial in style. So obviously some are going to hate it, at least initially.
brands also know that initially controversial style will seep into people's consciousness over time and often become more acceptable even if not loved by many.
and finally, brands will evolve their initially 'shocking' styles and what may have been shocking and negative initially and then became tolerable, now becomes desired as 'getting it right' the second time.
There are few brands and models that have 'stuck' with designs over time. The porsche 911 is obviously pretty much the benchmark here, but even the 911 has actually changed DRAMATICALLY over time, they're just very clever how they evolve it. They've also been more controversial in engineering, changing the 911 from air cooled to water cooled, evolving the number of variations to dozens now, and finally, making the 'heretical' move to make suvs out of porsches, lol.
So nothing is universally attractive and a lot of design is intentionally done to polarize with a follow-up evolution making it more palatable to more people.
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,970
Likes: 563
From: Lake Ontario
following up on this... many brands seek to shake things up by doing something controversial in style. So obviously some are going to hate it, at least initially.
brands also know that initially controversial style will seep into people's consciousness over time and often become more acceptable even if not loved by many.
and finally, brands will evolve their initially 'shocking' styles and what may have been shocking and negative initially and then became tolerable, now becomes desired as 'getting it right' the second time.
There are few brands and models that have 'stuck' with designs over time. The porsche 911 is obviously pretty much the benchmark here, but even the 911 has actually changed DRAMATICALLY over time, they're just very clever how they evolve it. They've also been more controversial in engineering, changing the 911 from air cooled to water cooled, evolving the number of variations to dozens now, and finally, making the 'heretical' move to make suvs out of porsches, lol.
So nothing is universally attractive and a lot of design is intentionally done to polarize with a follow-up evolution making it more palatable to more people.
brands also know that initially controversial style will seep into people's consciousness over time and often become more acceptable even if not loved by many.
and finally, brands will evolve their initially 'shocking' styles and what may have been shocking and negative initially and then became tolerable, now becomes desired as 'getting it right' the second time.
There are few brands and models that have 'stuck' with designs over time. The porsche 911 is obviously pretty much the benchmark here, but even the 911 has actually changed DRAMATICALLY over time, they're just very clever how they evolve it. They've also been more controversial in engineering, changing the 911 from air cooled to water cooled, evolving the number of variations to dozens now, and finally, making the 'heretical' move to make suvs out of porsches, lol.
So nothing is universally attractive and a lot of design is intentionally done to polarize with a follow-up evolution making it more palatable to more people.
that's exactly right 
whether i'm a fan or not isn't the point. Musk knows that doing the "same as everyone else" isn't going to cut it. No one could say the cybertruck design isn't bold, and obviously some people absolutely love it. i will definitely be interested in seeing what the final truck ends up being like.
and like i said, now that we've lived with the cybertruck design in our memories for over a year, it doesn't seem quite so radical as when we first saw it.
and i believe that's what will happen with the EQS. i think they could have done a better job with the front for example, and i'm sure that will get better looking, perhaps with an amg version, and a refresh.
then maybe at some point, to make it look less 'blob like' they may add a crease or other design elements.
whether i'm a fan or not isn't the point. Musk knows that doing the "same as everyone else" isn't going to cut it. No one could say the cybertruck design isn't bold, and obviously some people absolutely love it. i will definitely be interested in seeing what the final truck ends up being like.and like i said, now that we've lived with the cybertruck design in our memories for over a year, it doesn't seem quite so radical as when we first saw it.
and i believe that's what will happen with the EQS. i think they could have done a better job with the front for example, and i'm sure that will get better looking, perhaps with an amg version, and a refresh.
then maybe at some point, to make it look less 'blob like' they may add a crease or other design elements.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,856
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
that's exactly right whether i'm a fan or not isn't the point. Musk knows that doing the "same as everyone else" isn't going to cut it. No one could say the cybertruck design isn't bold, and obviously some people absolutely love it. i will definitely be interested in seeing what the final truck ends up being like.
and like i said, now that we've lived with the cybertruck design in our memories for over a year, it doesn't seem quite so radical as when we first saw it.
and i believe that's what will happen with the EQS. i think they could have done a better job with the front for example, and i'm sure that will get better looking, perhaps with an amg version, and a refresh.
then maybe at some point, to make it look less 'blob like' they may add a crease or other design elements.
whether i'm a fan or not isn't the point. Musk knows that doing the "same as everyone else" isn't going to cut it. No one could say the cybertruck design isn't bold, and obviously some people absolutely love it. i will definitely be interested in seeing what the final truck ends up being like.and like i said, now that we've lived with the cybertruck design in our memories for over a year, it doesn't seem quite so radical as when we first saw it.
and i believe that's what will happen with the EQS. i think they could have done a better job with the front for example, and i'm sure that will get better looking, perhaps with an amg version, and a refresh.
then maybe at some point, to make it look less 'blob like' they may add a crease or other design elements.
I'm not a new purchaser but now that Mercedes is in the game and shortly other established brands to come, Tesla is going to have a big problem.
Like these idiots
I'm not a new purchaser but now that Mercedes is in the game and shortly other established brands to come, Tesla is going to have a big problem.
Anyway, tesla doesn't have much to worry about with mercedes. In theory, ford, vw, one of the chines brands like nio could become more of a threat to tesla, but they're still a good bit behind - the mach-e is close though and better in some ways.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,957
Likes: 501
From: Maryland
I agree, definitely not a looker. When I find a car that isn’t much of a looker in my eyes but the overall package is right, I end up getting the car black in color. I feel it hides the ugliness of the car compared to lighter colors. Hence why I have 3 black cars right now.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
People that have differing opinions than you are not automatically idiots. Speaking of turds the EQS looks an awful lot like one IMO of course, I don't see anyone calling you an idiot for liking the design.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,856
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
The Model 3 is the cheapest model, with the long range version selling for $45,940 and Performance at $53,940. Model Y, which has third row seating (there better be small children sitting back there LOL) starts at $53,940/$58,940. The Models S and X are above $100K, these are the premium models. The Model 3 and Model Y are completely affordable, as cars in their classes are similar priced or higher. The thing about Tesla is that the web pricing is what you get, most dealers are jacking up the prices way above MSRP, I've seen cars like the RAV4 Prime being sold $10K above MSRP
Last edited by bitkahuna; Dec 5, 2021 at 11:51 AM.