Loser sports the avatar chosen by the winner.

 

Thanks, glad someone else likes it too.

thanks, your video was helpful. So it's about shape and efficiency of air moving over/around it, and not size.

i don't think you seriously believe that.

It's close but the S has been improved over time.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...roduction-car/

I believe the new S (not sure if plaid) is .21 and the EQS is .2

you're beginning to sound a lot like someone else on here.

Ok great so don't get an EQS! There's still an S class.

Jury's still out of course, even if you hate it. And maybe that was totally mb's intention - s-class for traditional, eqs for bold new, futuristic, younger buyers who want something different, not stodgy establishment.

I also think a lot of these opinions about the exterior look will fall by the wayside when people drive it.

we have 4 door coupes too, you get my point.

Hard to continue when you include the lucid in that list which looks like a huge ford taurus.

No point in further debate, we'll see. One thing i will add is that mercedes has had and has many models i consider ugly so it's not like everything mercedes makes is 'traditional' and conservative design, blah blah.

i agree somewhat but the new s class JUST came out and there's no way it was going to be electric because the packaging is too different. Just like porsche came out with taycan and didn't just make a panamera or 911 EV.

i think using the same platform for ice and ev is beyond stupid, and lazy. If you want to talk about flops, i think the genesis g80 ev is a disaster.

And again, they JUST came out with the new s-class and weren't about to throw that out to ONLY have an EV instead which won't work in half the world.

I think mb is right on the money... with old world and new world models, and at some point, when govts have outlawed new ice cars, they will only offer an evolution of the eqs. And if in the end there's that much loathing STILL for a 'non-traditional' eqs, then maybe someone else will come out with the 2035 lincoln town car.

 

Why wouldn't I? Blow up the W124 E-Class in size and you would still get the exact same drag coefficient it already has, from a car shaped like a brick.


That was my point- the Model S went from a drag coefficient of 0.24 when it came out to 0.21 with the plaid, with no changes to the sheetmetal.

I wanted the S-Class to be designed as an EV from the ground-up like the EQS, like what Jaguar was doing to the XJ before it was canned. Making two separate vehicles that fill this exact same small market niche (luxury barges meant to carry rear passengers in comfort) aimed at different audiences solely for the sake of establishing image is extremely counterproductive and a waste of resources. And it isn't the first time Mercedes has pulled this stunt either- look no further than the AMG GT 4-Door and CLS. The result of which is killing the CLS.

To that point, the Taycan and Panamera don't go toe-to-toe with each other. Taycan is a smaller car than the Panamera and can barely fit adults in the back. More importantly, those who buy a Panamera won't be alienated by a Taycan or vice versa like those who shop between an S-Class and EQS.

I agree that the electric G80 is a half-step, but you get a car that doesn't discriminate its audience (no need to be "quirky" just because you buy an EV), and has most of the benefits of an EV. The electric G80 is faster than the V6, handles better because of the battery placement at the bottom, and more quiet because of the lack of an engine. It is compromised by the higher seats and smaller trunk, but those are the same things people have to deal with in a hybrid- which Mercedes already offered the S-Class with. It also has a better charging system than the EQS because it can be hooked to an 800 kW fast charger. The range isn't great, but that's going to matter a lot less in the near future when fast chargers become commonplace.

I'm sure many would love to have an electric S-Class even if the range is half that of an EQS- because it's still an S-Class. Mercedes banking on all EV buyers being quirky millennial online influences or whatever dumb crap they have on their ads is a huge mistake. I'm reminded of this equally stupid commercial from BMW for their EV's.


I don't see how that matters to the few very wealthy people who can afford a new S-Class that can most definitely charge their own vehicles regardless of what country they live in. But that's an entirely separate topic.

 

Sorry they disappointed you.

Luxury brands create lots of vehicles to satisfy different discriminating clients. Excess and waste is what it's all about. that's like saying toyota shouldn't have a rav4 and a rav4 hybrid and a rav4 phev (prime) because it's a waste of resources. No, it's about selling vehicles to different types of buyers.

Again, when you're a high end luxury brand, you try things, some of which don't work out.

Do you think it will sell well? I don't. If anything is a 'waste of resources' this is a good example.

you're "sure" about what people want and that mb has made a huge mistake. You might be right, but i tend to trust mb's marketers/designers/businesspersons more, who may have entirely other reasons for doing what they're doing that you're not aware of.

maybe the eqs is there to screw up the lucid air launch whereas a frankenstein electric s-class you seem to want would be vulnerable.

but in general, i think mb is right, there's traditional buyers (like sw17ls) and there are people thinking about a luxury sedan but want something cool, not something considered "old money".

 

The difference is that those are all Rav-4's and not two completely separate vehicles like the S-Class and EQS, and the Rav-4 sits in the most popular vehicle segment in the world right now. Meanwhile, the S-Class is already a niche in a niche. How many competitors does the S-Class have? You could probably list them all with one hand.

Which is why it's important to not repeat the exact same mistakes when it didn't work the first time. We see how that goes for the American car companies.

I'm sure they'll sell more of them than the EQS.

EV's are all currently limited in production because no company besides Tesla has a steady battery supply. But unlike the EQS, the G80 is an established nameplate and won't alienate anyone who has a Genesis. Mercedes wants a new audience for the EQS, and we have no idea how large that audience is or if it even exists.

lol, it's not like Mercedes have made gargantuan financial mistakes in the past before, right?

It's pretty obvious what Mercedes wants- they want to be Tesla. They want their products to be seen like Tesla, because Tesla is the most desired car brand among young people who are about to become the lifeblood of the car market. The EQS is a tool to help them achieve that image. Whether or not that works out for them, we won't know until a few years ahead.

But if Mercedes is willing to sacrifice the S-Class in favor of the EQS and this new brand image, and toss away their heritage in the same manner as BMW in that stupid iX/7-Series ad, then they're throwing away their one greatest strength.

 

Not going over all your points that i disagree with but on this one i disagree with your premise that they're 'sacrificing the S-Class' - they're simply placing 2 bets. I disagree they're "tossing away their heritage" too... mercedes will be just fine.

 

This car doesn't give me a Mercedes vibe at all. It's like a cross between a 70's American boat, an arcade and a giant smart phone. Have no clue if it will be a success or not.

 

Why do they have to place a bet? Make the S-Class a full EV that looks the way it currently does instead of this funky FWD hatch thing. If EV's somehow don't pan out and hydrogen becomes the next big thing (lol) then make the next S-Class hydrogen. The S-Class has always been meant to be the pinnacle of Mercedes's technology at the time. The new model brings little to the table in that regard, as it's held back in favor of the EQS.

The S-Class will keep selling because it's the S-Class, but its relevance and nameplate will diminish to newer generations fawning over Tesla because Mercedes has effectively refused to let it move forward with the latest technologies. It'll be known as "the old man's car" rather than the symbol of desire it's been for decades. And by the time Mercedes tries to revive/reinvigorate the nameplate... well, we all saw what happened when Lexus attempted to revitalize the LS with the LS500 after letting the LS460 stagnate for a decade.

And that's the best case scenario if the EQS succeeds. If it doesn't, then I'm sure both cars will make a great case study in some business class about how trying to force a certain image on your customers can devalue your brand.

 

Imagine this scene from the Transporter but with the EQS replacing the S-Class. Who would take it seriously?

 

lol no. I can't take the worn bar of soap styling seriously. And speaking of transport why does it have a Pontiac Transport window?

 

"Worn bar of soap"!! I love it! 👍 And it weighs 6000lbs too.

 

The point is I would like to be able to buy an EV with the capability of the EQS in a car that looks like an S Class, and there are a ton of other people who would also. I shouldnt have to buy some silly looking car in order to get a great Mercedes with an EV powertrain. THATS the point.

I don't think many people would spend $120k+ on a car they hate the looks of. This isn't a Prius.

And this car looks like a huge 20 year old Honda Civic lol

I think they're great looking, different without being strange. I would drive a Lucid Air.

But the taycan looks like a Porsche, it has beautiful lines. It doesnt have to be an S Class it just has to be a great looking car. But in any event, a ton of people think they are the same car.

The flop isnt the platform, its the poor performance. Hybrids really took off when they started making hybrid cars that were just like non hybrid cars, and that will be the same for EVs too.

I can do without the rude insinuations that those who don't like this car are stodgy old out of touch rubes. I have proven many times that I am not that, and MANY people don't like this car...we're not all simply backward. I just think the car is ugly, that doesn't make me out of touch. I think many thoroughly modern EV vehicles are beautiful, just not this one.

You act like this one model is the litmus test for those who are and aren't with it, and thats just not the case. Its not a question of wanting it to look like an old car, I want it to look like a good looking car.

 

You haven’t even seen it person yet.

 

I doubt seeing it in person is going to dramatically change my opinion of it. Its not like I'm just not sure about it from a couple angles...

 

ok so you can't get what you want. life is hard.

and no one is forcing them to.

great, and hope this completely unproven company does not have lots of problems.

i don't think the taycan looks all that great. looks are subjective, ya know. what are the same car, taycan and 911?

i wrote and implied no such thing. you've repeated over and over and over about 'traditional' designs so that's your thing. nothing wrong with that, at all. you're a conservative (taste) buyer, which is fine! you got a new ls460L after the ls500 came out. you got the (awesome) prior gen s-class after the new one came out (or right around the same time) because you preferred the old design. imo most car designs age FAST and certainly look older when new versions come out. again, just my opinion.

i really don't care. and if the eqs is a complete flop, i still won't care.

i can't help how you interpret how i 'act'. i like the eqs, you and 'many' others don't. you and motorola think it should have been more like an s-class, i.e., more traditional! i don't. you're entitled to your opinion, as am i. doesn't make either of us right or wrong. if you don't like my opinion, i'm sorry about that.

completely subjective but many of your comments imply it should look like something that already exists which is fine, it's just opinions.

the tesla s for example, is a really good looking car, but it is NOT innovative. it is highly derivative of so many cars that came before it like the porsche panamera. the taycan looks like a cramped 4 door ferrari 348 from back in the day. the etron-gt looks great to me (although front is too busy) but it's still very derivative. nothing 'wrong' with that per se, they all want to sell vehicles!