I agree 100% that more competition is needed and happy to see another RWD luxury sedan rather than a crossover. The issue I have is there really is no innovation with the G80 to move the needle forward.

Tesla has been the only company since Lexus in the 90s to have significant success as a new brand. Both of them had vast innovation that helped change the auto industry.

 

Well, lets start with the fact that on the base car you have sensatec. But no, I'm talking about Dakota leather. Its grainy, rough, just doesn't feel high end. All those features are great, but I'm talking about the feel and look, they just feel and look cheap to me.

 

The 1st gen 2008-14 Hyundai Genesis sold quite well with nearly 34k units/year late in its model life thanks to heavy discounting.
2nd gen 2014-20 Hyundai Genesis/Genesis G80 I Series did have a great start in its first full year with 33k/year, but has rapidly decayed in sales - probably a lack of heavy discounting later in its model life?

In 2012-18 6ES's 6 year model cycle, the very worst annual sales was still 48k/year.
In 2009-16 E Class's 7 year model cycle, the very worst annual sales was still 43k/year.
In 2010-17 5 Series' 7 year model cycle, the very worst annual sales was still 32k/year.

Right now, if I had to buy a luxury midsizer, I'd get 7ES.
If I could lease a luxury midsizer for 48 months etc, I'd get E Class or 5 Series.
ES, E Class and 5 Series are still yard stick - the top three to beat.

One can leather leather all they like, but at the end of the day, that's how the consumer sees it; the nice leather in G80 Mk 1 is not selling.
Last year, the hardier leather in the Germans is actually selling nearly 6x more than leather in Genesis G80 Mk 1.

My prediction is that G80 II will NOT displace either of the three established luxury midsize yard sticks.
I'm not sure if G80 II will even be as "relatively" successful amongst its peers as its predecessor the old 2014-20 Hyundai Genesis/Genesis G80 Mk 1.

Like you say, G80 II must offer attractive discounting relative to the established peers.
Presently compact G70 is essentially selling at the bottom of its class - only outselling the relatively unknown compact Jaguar XE - probably because G70's price is too high relative to its established peers.
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Some of the Genesis' drop is likely due to buyers' going to crossovers, will all the other factors considered too (no brand cachet, etc.). No luxury brand is selling without lease incentives, but if Ze Germans offer the discounts, the other brands have to discount even more.

The 2nd Genesis/G80 is really nice IMO, would be a decent pre-owned pickup. G70s are a bargain as well.

 

the pricing will make it sell like the GS... i.e. crap.

but they have to raise the price in order to be perceived as luxury.

they can't be stuck in the middle ground like acura and infiniti

 

MSRP means almost nothing in this segment. Everything will hinge on how competitive of a lease they'll be able to offer. It also is then balanced against what realistic volume are they trying to achieve? I highly doubt Genesis is looking to move from their 7K annual volume (2019) up to the 5 Series/E-Class at 40K.

 

Dollar-for-dollar, feature-for-feature, it's pretty competitive against the Germans. But as others mentioned, lease is king in this market. That's why the Audi A6 was struggling as well.

Right now, predicting sales numbers feels like a moot point because of the pandemic. Nothing is going to sell well for the next year or so, especially in this segment, which was declining already.

 

I disagree. G70 had a botched launch that delayed it from showing up at dealerships, not helped by the Hyundai and Genesis franchising dealership fiasco that effectively halved the sales of their other vehicles as well and halted all sales momentum for the brand for almost two years.

https://www.autonews.com/article/201...t-mostly-on-tv
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebus.../#66231fb112ab

All the hype from the auto journalists didn't help when the car wasn't even available on the lots to be sold. Also didn't help that by the time it did finally reach lots, all the media hype had moved onto the G20 3-Series, and there were already reports of Genesis themselves already testing the facelifted version of the G70 with the new engines. That put the current G70 in an awkward position.

Right now, the G80 is coming at a time when the Germans are merely offering facelifts to their aging vehicles, and the Japanese competition has all but disappeared overnight. The brand has hopefully sorted out their dealership inventory, and the media hype from motor journalists is at an all-time high. The timing is absolute perfect- or would be if it weren't for the virus wreaking havoc.

 

I agree it is priced too high, especially the V6 which is what everyone wants, they never should have offered a 4 cyl, I think they priced the G70 3.3T too high too and took away a lot of potential sales and interest.

The problem with putting a high price tag on it to try to make it be perceived as luxury is it can turn off and chase potential buyers away, they will immediately not consider it, many people hate trying to haggle a dealer for a discount and not every dealer will discount so there is the potential to lose a lot of customers you would have gotten if you put out a very attractive price that many were saying is a lot of car for the money.

With the Hyundai Genesis and first Gen G80, they didn't price them too high, it got a lot of the basics right for a very attractive price and that is how they got good sales from it but it did not immediately make Genesis a company that can start pricing cars high or in line with Lexus or even not that far off from Germans.

 

Yep, that full electric G80 is coming.https://www.sammobile.com/news/samsu...electric-cars/

 

Despite crossovers, notice how sales of ES, E Class and 5 Series is still quite high - with no less than 32k/year in the 5 Series in its very worst year, keeping in mind that the 5 Series is the worst selling of the trio?
On the other hand, despite the low prices, the current G80 already down to a paltry 7k last year, and this year will be much much worse.

Totally agree with you.
I almost bought Hyundai Genesis back in 2015.

Full size 2016-Onwards G90 didn't sell well either, despite its lower prices.
After its first full year with only 4k units [making 5LS look like a huge success], sales of G90 has gone down and down, year after year.

We will see if you are right over the next couple of years - how well Genesis sells relative to its peers - as the market recovers from COVID-19.
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G90 was never meant to be a volume seller. Its predecessor, the Hyundai Equus, never made it past 4K in sales despite being thousands cheaper and being on the market for 6 whole years. The G90's sales in its first model year (2017) were higher than the Equus ever was. 2018 and 2019 sales took a hit due to the aforementioned dealership fiasco. But even then, I question if Genesis have that many G90s to sell here. I doubt they had the same lofty expectations for it as Lexus did with the LS, since it's primarily designed to sell in their home market in Korea, a luxury the LS does not have in Japan.

The full-size luxury segment is a tough nut to crack. The brand new Audi A8 was a total sales disaster in its first model year (2019), with only 2900 units sold, which is barely better than the G90 from the same year and well below the G90 upon its launch.


(By the way, I'm not sure why you keep referring to the ES when it's clearly not a part of this segment with the E-Class and 5-Series and is priced well below them and everyone else)

 

I respect Genesis and that they are doing Luxury the right way with RWD platforms.

Their Marketing is horrendous so far imo.
I still don’t get what are they, who are they, why does the brand exist?
They need to have a slogan and mission statement.

4cyl turbo for main engine compared to V6 they offered in last gen is also a negative to me.
For performance shoppers- they have no answer to 540i/M550 or E53.
For bargain shoppers- ES will be way cheaper.
For badge shoppers- Germans will win.

Personally they should of went for the ES client base with better engineered car which is what G80 is.
Instead they shot straight to the moon without a clear advantage over the main competition.

 

I would take a V6 over a 4-cylinder turbo any day, but it's the segment norm, and the one in the new G80 is actually a bit more powerful than the old naturally aspirated V6. 310 lb-ft of torque vs 293, and 300 horsepower vs 311.

I don't know what others think, but to me, Genesis has always been something of a hybrid between the German and Japanese brands. You want the design, technology, and performance of the German brands, but the build quality and longevity of the Japanese brands- you pick a Genesis. Certainly, you could argue that Genesis is not quite there yet with Mercedes or Lexus in either of these spectrums, but it's a compelling compromise that I imagine many people would be willing to accept. It's a lot easier to make the case for Genesis than it is for other brands like Volvo.

 

nicely summarized. IMO It is also a brand for people who aren’t after a logo but want a good product and can appreciate the effort that has gone in the design and execution without any brand bais.

It is not too difficult to see from their products that they are hungry to make a mark in the luxury segment and they deserve credit for that especially when when several more established players are playing it safe.