I agree they would not be cross shopped, but for different reasons. Tada said the Supra is a GT car as well (as previous Supra generations have been). Every car that is loaded with luxury and amenities, is a GT car because it sacrifices performance for creature comfort and experience.

Some people want a back seat or experience of N/A high-revving response/noise (which is why I bought it). In that case, a Supra does not fit the bill there.

 

When I look at youtube or forums, I'm coming to the belief that none of the cars that have today an inconic status wouldn't have had a single chance if internet would have happened to exist in their young age.
The NSX was not powerful enough and was rather slow.
The Supra wasn't that powerful and rather hugly.
The M3 was so quadratic and the electric was bad.
The Stratos was a unpractical car, overheated and cramped.
The Countach was a money pit to maintain and with a middle-ish reliability.

....

I really believe that we should all take a holiday from debating cars we never experienced for ourselves. I'm sure this car will find some public, I'm even shure it will be good on certain type of roads, even if I don't believe it to be a good seller whatsoever (It's simply impossible to forget the FT-1 that was so tasty in regard of what came). Actually, we all sound like a bunch of Jeremy Clarkson's.

 

I would have suggested they stopped at the body and chassis and each go their own way with powertrains. What happened to all those Dynamic Force engines that they were supposedly introducing? So far other than the LS500 motor, it has been rather weak.

 

I agree with this.

If they were going to share platforms, I would be fine with that. Just share the chassis and then the rest should be their own design. Like many others have said here, other forums, magazines, and YouTube - the Mark 5 Supra is too BMW. Not saying that is a bad thing but its a bad thing for the Supra name.

If this was another Toyota car, it would do extremely well. Call it the Celica and drop the price.

 

LOL, Toyota can't even bother to contribute during a joint project. They are good as dead for me as a car company, and thus I am glad that the new Supra was developed by a proper car company that did a very decent job. Like I said previously, if Toyota made the Supra themselves, it would most likely have been an utter disappointment.

 

A Japanese V6 belongs more in a Supra than a detuned BMW engine that will form problems in less than 60K miles.

Developed by a proper car company? What makes BMW proper? That's subjective. I could say BMW is not a proper car company because they can't make reliable cars. Isn't cars suppose to be reliable and take care of the buyer? How does BMW provide this when they are consistently ranked average or below average on reliability?

And you called me bias earlier... It looks like you are bias towards BMW with Toyota hate.

So its not a disappointment that its made by BMW? I think the general verdict by the population is that everyone hates this Supra. I think you only like it because its a BMW.

I think RNM GS3's point is fair. He likes both Toyota and BMW - as do I. But when you mix a legendary Supra with a car company like BMW - it just doesn't work. It draws up too many issues.

 

BMW originally provided the 4.4 estimated time. But right after the Toyota press conference touting 4.1, BMW came back and revised their time to 3.9

 

Appreciate the explanation. Thank you very much.

 

3.5 Twin Turbo V6 only makes sense in LS and GS sized car . I really have my doubts when it comes to putting in such a monstrosity of an engine in anything smaller. Then there is a character of the engine which is very opposite from the sports car. It's not your GT-R V6 that's for sure, it doesn't act like that at all. It's made for soft cruising with enough punch to keep the boat going.

 

You mean the engine that will soon be fitted in the 2nd gen ISF is made soft for cruising and lacks character befitting of a sports car...too funny.

 

You might want to look at recent JD Power and Consumer Reports reliability and dependability studies. BMW is above average.

 

 

Even though most of the Supra is a BMW, it is at least being built by Magna. So it shouldn't be all that bad.

 

I like both too. But I dislike the German stereotype. So I'll tell my story again. I am the original owner of a E92 335i. It was on the CR avoid, and unreliable lists. As the vehicle neared warranty expiration, I listened to people who said, "Nobody drives a BMW out of warranty." "You'd be crazy to keep a N54 without an extended warranty." Well the car just turned 12, and the only repair more than $200 was the ABS/DSC pump. Yes, that's a $4,200 repair at the dealer. But it can be DIY for as little as $300. I had to buy software and some line wrenches and a motive, so my cost was just under $500.

So I shopped online and by phone for an extended warranty to get it heavily discounted and no sales tax, bought it to extend to 7/100, and nothing ever happened.

Moral of my story? You always hear about the cars breaking and the expensive repairs, you rarely hear from the people whose cars didn't break. But you always seem to hear the latter from the Japanese car owners. So it paints an unrealistic picture.

 

Where do people get this stuff? None of that is true. BMW is above average in all the reliability data over the last few years I've seen. There is no evidence that this engine "will develop problems in less than 60k miles".

And anyway, even if they were "average" average is quite good. People have this idea that if a car isn't in the top three rankings its an unreliable POS, and thats just not true. Oftentimes the difference between a brand ranked 9ths and 1st is a slim margin.

Quote:

I think the general verdict by the population is that everyone hates this Supra

It is? How do you come to have such a pulse on the general population? I've read and watched a bunch of things on it, seems positive. The comments on such reviews online seem positive..."Supra purists", are they really going to buy this car anyways?

​​​​​​​I would venture to say you can't bring any "vaunted" car back after 20 years and not **** people off.