2019 Toyota Supra
#616
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
Correction. Toyota decided to develop the new Supra with BMW and it became a let down. If Toyota engineered it themselves, they could have done better. I mean, honestly, Toyota gave us the Lexus LFA. Rebuilding the Supra from the ground up would be easy for them. They just took the easy way out and it shows.
BMW unreliability is greatly exaggerated, and often it is the price of BMW being the first to adopt newest tech, while Toyota lags a decade behind. My 2012 X5 did have many issues, but I haven't had a single issue with my 2015 m235i, 2018 M2 or 2017 X6M.
Can't blame BMW for doing that. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW engines, I'm sure there are going to be options for the Supra.
#617
Lexus Fanatic
#618
Lexus Champion
I guess to people not like us it won't matter; we are all car guys. But you'd think Toyota would be aware of the people like us.
Sad the car isn't 100% Toyota, but in these days I guess I understand why Toyota won't invest billions for one car.
They could have thrown the new LSs ttV6 in there, at least. I'm sure it would have fit fit, as an I6 takes up much more room.
Sad the car isn't 100% Toyota, but in these days I guess I understand why Toyota won't invest billions for one car.
They could have thrown the new LSs ttV6 in there, at least. I'm sure it would have fit fit, as an I6 takes up much more room.
#620
Lexus Test Driver
They only built 500 LFAs with $400k pricetag. So much for that. When it comes to the rest of their attempts at performance vehicles, they've only built half assed disappointments that can't hold a candle to the competition. They simply do not have the platform to build the Supra, and they are not going to invest in it. I don't have much faith in Toyota.
BMW unreliability is greatly exaggerated, and often it is the price of BMW being the first to adopt newest tech, while Toyota lags a decade behind. My 2012 X5 did have many issues, but I haven't had a single issue with my 2015 m235i, 2018 M2 or 2017 X6M.
Can't blame BMW for doing that. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW engines, I'm sure there are going to be options for the Supra.
BMW unreliability is greatly exaggerated, and often it is the price of BMW being the first to adopt newest tech, while Toyota lags a decade behind. My 2012 X5 did have many issues, but I haven't had a single issue with my 2015 m235i, 2018 M2 or 2017 X6M.
Can't blame BMW for doing that. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW engines, I'm sure there are going to be options for the Supra.
So they didn't have the platform to build the Supra so they let BMW make it? They could have made it from the ground up or don't make it at all. The nameplate is super important, super important. Learn from Honda's mistake. They made the NSX what it was not suppose to be and it flopped hard. This Supra will probably see the same faith. Look at the forums and maybe auto magazines - majority of them hate this thing.
That's a horrible excuse. You are defending BMW's horrible reliability because they are first to adopt new tech. One can argue the same thing - Toyota delays their tech because they are number 1 in reliability.
Besides - BMW is hardly fast when it comes to new tech. Their entry-level cars 2 series, 3 series and etc.... lack cooled seats. Their cars lack a full digital display till the recently G20 3 Series. Hell - they didn't even get rid of the hand pull e-brake till the G20 as well. Mercedes Benz is fast with tech. BMW is pretty average on speed with tech.
And BMW's reliability is not exaggerated. Its trash reliability. This is why people call BMW cars lease king. You want to lease a BMW because you don't want to own one out of warranty.
Out of all the cars you listed - the oldest one is the 2015 that didn't have an issue. That car is only about 3 years old because we just turned into 2019. Wait until your cars go over 4 years old - it'll have problems.
Yeah. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW. But how many people want to tune a BMW and face the expensive repairs if crap hits the fan?
You wanna know whats funny? A Mark 4 with 7000 miles was just sold for 121K after the Mark 5 release. If the Mark 5 Supra was hyped and a good car, I bet the Mark 4 wouldn't have sold for over 6 figures. Mark 4 resale value just shot up.
#622
Lexus Champion
The more I look at it, the more I like it. It's finally growing on me.
#625
Pole Position
If you can wrap around that you are actually buying the BMW car with Toyota skin with AAA model badge than the car is great. It looks better than Z4 from the outside, inside is different story as Z4 has new parts and bits. But if you are willing to deceive yourself that Toyota has worked some kind of magic on BMW platform, engine or transmission to deliver ultimate package that's where you will be very let down. Besides gearing ratio and suspension tuning in some realistic realm of chassis capability there is not whole going on as Toyota doesn't have access to proprietary stuff.
#626
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
Again - the point of the Lexus LFA was that Toyota can build a great car if they tried. It wasn't the point of how well it sold or whatever. It was the fact that the Lexus LFA was a hell of a car.
So they didn't have the platform to build the Supra so they let BMW make it? They could have made it from the ground up or don't make it at all. The nameplate is super important, super important. Learn from Honda's mistake. They made the NSX what it was not suppose to be and it flopped hard. This Supra will probably see the same faith. Look at the forums and maybe auto magazines - majority of them hate this thing.
That's a horrible excuse. You are defending BMW's horrible reliability because they are first to adopt new tech. One can argue the same thing - Toyota delays their tech because they are number 1 in reliability.
Besides - BMW is hardly fast when it comes to new tech. Their entry-level cars 2 series, 3 series and etc.... lack cooled seats. Their cars lack a full digital display till the recently G20 3 Series. Hell - they didn't even get rid of the hand pull e-brake till the G20 as well. Mercedes Benz is fast with tech. BMW is pretty average on speed with tech.
And BMW's reliability is not exaggerated. Its trash reliability. This is why people call BMW cars lease king. You want to lease a BMW because you don't want to own one out of warranty.
Out of all the cars you listed - the oldest one is the 2015 that didn't have an issue. That car is only about 3 years old because we just turned into 2019. Wait until your cars go over 4 years old - it'll have problems.
Yeah. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW. But how many people want to tune a BMW and face the expensive repairs if crap hits the fan?
You wanna know whats funny? A Mark 4 with 7000 miles was just sold for 121K after the Mark 5 release. If the Mark 5 Supra was hyped and a good car, I bet the Mark 4 wouldn't have sold for over 6 figures. Mark 4 resale value just shot up.
So they didn't have the platform to build the Supra so they let BMW make it? They could have made it from the ground up or don't make it at all. The nameplate is super important, super important. Learn from Honda's mistake. They made the NSX what it was not suppose to be and it flopped hard. This Supra will probably see the same faith. Look at the forums and maybe auto magazines - majority of them hate this thing.
That's a horrible excuse. You are defending BMW's horrible reliability because they are first to adopt new tech. One can argue the same thing - Toyota delays their tech because they are number 1 in reliability.
Besides - BMW is hardly fast when it comes to new tech. Their entry-level cars 2 series, 3 series and etc.... lack cooled seats. Their cars lack a full digital display till the recently G20 3 Series. Hell - they didn't even get rid of the hand pull e-brake till the G20 as well. Mercedes Benz is fast with tech. BMW is pretty average on speed with tech.
And BMW's reliability is not exaggerated. Its trash reliability. This is why people call BMW cars lease king. You want to lease a BMW because you don't want to own one out of warranty.
Out of all the cars you listed - the oldest one is the 2015 that didn't have an issue. That car is only about 3 years old because we just turned into 2019. Wait until your cars go over 4 years old - it'll have problems.
Yeah. There are plenty of aftermarket tunes for BMW. But how many people want to tune a BMW and face the expensive repairs if crap hits the fan?
You wanna know whats funny? A Mark 4 with 7000 miles was just sold for 121K after the Mark 5 release. If the Mark 5 Supra was hyped and a good car, I bet the Mark 4 wouldn't have sold for over 6 figures. Mark 4 resale value just shot up.
Basically there are two types of people in this world - those who will keep hating and moaning on the internet, and those who will buy and enjoy the new Supra.
#627
Moderator
iTrader: (16)
So they didn't have the platform to build the Supra so they let BMW make it? They could have made it from the ground up or don't make it at all. The nameplate is super important, super important.
#628
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Speaking of the lfa... toyota spent soooo much money on that, and it took soooo long, perhaps it left toyota with a ‘never doing that again!’ Feeling as far as developing a sports coupe from scratch, and why they decided to use bmw’s platform.
no matter how good toyota’s tweaking might be, it just flies in the face of everything toyota and supra stands for, for them to sell a SUPRA that is a bmw z4 in almost all aspects.
is it a good car? I’m sure it is. Will it sell... i expect sales to be pretty tepid, heck the other supra models didn’t do that well for new car sales, it became more legendary because of tuners and 2nd/3rd/etc. owners. But also because the market has changed.
i bet if a poll were done 10 years ago asking people “would you be interested in a new supra made with a bmw platform?” It was have been an overwhelming ‘hell no’. But now it’s here... some be like “hmm... maybe it’s cool...”
no matter how good toyota’s tweaking might be, it just flies in the face of everything toyota and supra stands for, for them to sell a SUPRA that is a bmw z4 in almost all aspects.
is it a good car? I’m sure it is. Will it sell... i expect sales to be pretty tepid, heck the other supra models didn’t do that well for new car sales, it became more legendary because of tuners and 2nd/3rd/etc. owners. But also because the market has changed.
i bet if a poll were done 10 years ago asking people “would you be interested in a new supra made with a bmw platform?” It was have been an overwhelming ‘hell no’. But now it’s here... some be like “hmm... maybe it’s cool...”
#629
My mom has a 2004 Z4 3.0 Sport and it runs fine. Never really had any major issues common oil leaks have popped up and been fixed, it’s been a fantastic weekend cruiser for her. The Supra will be a great drivers car, it’s not exactly the car I wanted from Toyota. But I understand fully why it exists and how they got their bean counters to sign off on it.
#630
Lexus Test Driver
It is funny you are claiming someone else to be "hating and moaning" when being the pot, you should meet the kettle. You clearly are a hater to claim "half assed" because you love your BMWs. You might be madly in love with your M2, but that does not make it a true argument for what Lexus builds for F performance. Neither the ISF was a half assed attempt nor is the RCF. If that is what you are trying to claim, it is not based on facts. How you downplay the BMW being notorious for having major issues while trashing Lexus for their performance cars.