2019 Toyota Supra
01-16-19, 05:50 PM
#632
Toyota is making excused that cant have their own engine for only supra. They need a new engine anyway and why not develop one and can share block to the upcoming IS,GS. Their V6 came out since 2006. It is all about making profit these day.
01-16-19, 05:53 PM
#633
It is funny you are claiming someone else to be "hating and moaning" when being the pot, you should meet the kettle. You clearly are a hater to claim "half assed" because you love your BMWs. You might be madly in love with your M2, but that does not make it a true argument for what Lexus builds for F performance. Neither the ISF was a half assed attempt nor is the RCF. If that is what you are trying to claim, it is not based on facts. How you downplay the BMW being notorious for having major issues while trashing Lexus for their performance cars.
01-16-19, 06:08 PM
#634
Lexus Champion
It will sell, in whatever small numbers, based on its looks, and then after that the name; lastly the Bimmer stuff underneath the body. As for legacy and heritage - that didn't start with the MKIV, as the Fast n Furious-wtf-did-they-do-to-my Supra, crowd says. There were three previous generations of Supra that some of the people might not have ever driven. So the anger is based on the last generation Supra - which priced itself right out the market. It was almost too radical for the owners of the previous generations.
Sure it might flop but it's not exactly aimed at the MKIV people is it? The total sales of the MKIV would be a laugh in today's world for a mass market car manufacturer. There was no way that Toyota was going to bring back a purebred Supra with a dedicated Toyota inline six and all the other great stuff. Too expensive and too risky.
People also seem to forget that the six speed in the IV was a Getrag - yes that's a German transmission maker.
Sure it might flop but it's not exactly aimed at the MKIV people is it? The total sales of the MKIV would be a laugh in today's world for a mass market car manufacturer. There was no way that Toyota was going to bring back a purebred Supra with a dedicated Toyota inline six and all the other great stuff. Too expensive and too risky.
People also seem to forget that the six speed in the IV was a Getrag - yes that's a German transmission maker.
01-16-19, 06:12 PM
#635
I won’t go as far to call the RC-F half-assed, but the RC-F was day late and dollar short on its development. My biggest pet peeve with it was it’s obesity. Other than that Lexus made a pretty good attempt to compete with the RS5, M3 and C63.
01-16-19, 06:27 PM
#636
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed. I was not impressed wth any of the RC models I looked at.
The first IS-F, BTW, debuted in 2008....on the second-generation IS version, not the first (which was sold from 2001 to 2005). I think that is what you meant, but just wanted to clarify it.
01-16-19, 06:38 PM
#637
Lexus Test Driver
I was actually very close to buying an E90 M3 so you can't say I am die hard Lexus fan since M3 is what I wanted before I switched to the RCF. Regarding the M4, I could not stand the crappy noise so it was not an option., but I respect it as a benchmark in the category.
Also, just saw recently Christian Menzel in Germany on the same track running quicker lap in the RCF carbon that your beloved M2. That makes your M2 less than half assed attempt using your own analogy.
Before anyone talks about the weight go look at the weight of the C63, RS5, Mustang GT or even the GT350 and then come back and criticize RCF for its weight
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 01-16-19 at 07:06 PM.
01-16-19, 06:49 PM
#638
Lexus Fanatic
While light weight may help track performance, it can (?), in some cases, indicate light or flimsy materials. I, for one, was not a bit impressed with most of the materials in the RC's interior and trim....except for the nice NuLuxe seat material that Lexus uses, which is excellent. I can't comment on the thread-topic Supra yet because I haven't seen it or sat in it.
01-16-19, 06:54 PM
#639
Lexus Test Driver
While light weight may help track performance, it can (?), in some cases, indicate light or flimsy materials. I, for one, was not a bit impressed with most of the materials in the RC's interior and trim....except for the nice NuLuxe seat material that Lexus uses, which is excellent. I can't comment on the thread-topic Supra yet because I haven't seen it or sat in it.
I don't know where you are coming from, but only the base RCF uses nulux. My RCF has stitched leather with suede inserts. Most of the interior material has aluminum, Alcantara, carbon fiber and magnesium paddles. It is one the most things I get praises on how great the interior feels like a fighter cockpit.
01-16-19, 07:03 PM
#640
Lexus Test Driver
This is not BMW vs Toyota.
BMW is GREAT and I have had one in my garage for past 10 years since my E92 335i.
This is about Toyota selling out its only real sports car related product - the Supra.
How can you as a company be proud of a product that you had nothing to do with. This is not some econobox that nobody knows the name of. Supra is known all around the world by car ppl.
To me and many others who waited so long just feel cheated and let down.
BMW comes away on top in this case because they charged Toyota bunch of $$$$$ and this only solidifies their reputation in making amazing inline 6s and performance cars. The new generation of owners that will tune these cars will now talk about B58s and not new 2JZ.
Toyota has ton of resources and could have easily used new LC chassis to base Supra on and make it a foot shorter.
LC is already capable car And Supra couldnhave been a more raw version....They are just so lazy and cheap so they sold out their last connection to any Toyota enthusiasts that were left.
For Basketball fans - the analogy would be of how Kevin Durant joined the Golden State Warriors. Couldn’t do it with his own team so just hopped on a winner to claim a championship.
BMW is GREAT and I have had one in my garage for past 10 years since my E92 335i.
This is about Toyota selling out its only real sports car related product - the Supra.
How can you as a company be proud of a product that you had nothing to do with. This is not some econobox that nobody knows the name of. Supra is known all around the world by car ppl.
To me and many others who waited so long just feel cheated and let down.
BMW comes away on top in this case because they charged Toyota bunch of $$$$$ and this only solidifies their reputation in making amazing inline 6s and performance cars. The new generation of owners that will tune these cars will now talk about B58s and not new 2JZ.
Toyota has ton of resources and could have easily used new LC chassis to base Supra on and make it a foot shorter.
LC is already capable car And Supra couldnhave been a more raw version....They are just so lazy and cheap so they sold out their last connection to any Toyota enthusiasts that were left.
For Basketball fans - the analogy would be of how Kevin Durant joined the Golden State Warriors. Couldn’t do it with his own team so just hopped on a winner to claim a championship.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-16-19 at 07:09 PM.
01-16-19, 07:06 PM
#641
Lexus Fanatic
01-16-19, 07:11 PM
#642
Lexus Fanatic
....and NuLuxe is excellent stuff, IMO as good as real leather. I was impressed with it when I first saw it in the CT, and I've liked it in every Lexus since. I'm not terribly impressed with some of the very light plastic I've seen inside the RC. I haven't seen the materials in the full-F models, and can't comment on them, but I have seen the F-sport.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-16-19 at 07:18 PM.
01-16-19, 07:19 PM
#643
Lexus Test Driver
Lets see:
1) Detuned Engine
2) BMW offers longer bumper to bumper warranty and
3) BMW offers free maintenance for 3 yrs vs 2yrs for Toyota
4) Z4 interior materials are superior - featuring more leather, real metal/aluminum trim. Supra has cheaper lower quality black plastic as per reviewers.
5) Idrive screen is smaller in Supra (8in vs 10in for Z4) and is most likely older version.
6) Based on MT review, Z4 was faster and more sporty of the 2
7) You honestly think BMW is stupid to let Toyota have the better product?
1) Detuned Engine
2) BMW offers longer bumper to bumper warranty and
3) BMW offers free maintenance for 3 yrs vs 2yrs for Toyota
4) Z4 interior materials are superior - featuring more leather, real metal/aluminum trim. Supra has cheaper lower quality black plastic as per reviewers.
5) Idrive screen is smaller in Supra (8in vs 10in for Z4) and is most likely older version.
6) Based on MT review, Z4 was faster and more sporty of the 2
7) You honestly think BMW is stupid to let Toyota have the better product?
01-16-19, 07:22 PM
#644
Lexus Fanatic
Well, they were dumb enough to get rid of what IMO was probably the best mass-production hydraulic power-steering system in the world and substitute the electric steering. That, alone, took away the only reason I'd ever want to purchase or lease a BMW.....along with the superb suspension ride/handling characteristics.
01-16-19, 07:38 PM
#645
No, just that you are a hater BMW fan displaying the stereotypical ignorance. I could post ldata where RCF ran within a few tenths of your beloved M around the track. You know it fully well it is not a half assed attempt if you put your BMW sunshades down.
I was actually very close to buying an E90 M3 so you can't say I am die hard Lexus fan since M3 is what I wanted before I switched to the RCF. Regarding the M4, I could not stand the crappy noise so it was not an option., but I respect it as a benchmark in the category.
Also, just saw recently Christian Menzel in Germany on the same track running quicker lap in the RCF carbon that your beloved M2. That makes your M2 less than half assed attempt using your own analogy.
Before anyone talks about the weight go look at the weight of the C63, RS5, Mustang GT or even the GT350 and then come back and criticize RCF for its weight
I was actually very close to buying an E90 M3 so you can't say I am die hard Lexus fan since M3 is what I wanted before I switched to the RCF. Regarding the M4, I could not stand the crappy noise so it was not an option., but I respect it as a benchmark in the category.
Also, just saw recently Christian Menzel in Germany on the same track running quicker lap in the RCF carbon that your beloved M2. That makes your M2 less than half assed attempt using your own analogy.
Before anyone talks about the weight go look at the weight of the C63, RS5, Mustang GT or even the GT350 and then come back and criticize RCF for its weight
The RC-F is the car I recommend for a guy who wants to track and doesn’t want to be bothered with high maintenance bills. It’s a very reliable fun to drive car, but it’s goal was never Nurburgring, SpA lap times etc. like I said a dollar short and a day late. Had Lexus built the RC-F in 2010 or so, we would be having a completely different conversation right now.
Last edited by highrev6; 01-16-19 at 07:51 PM.