Toyota Chairman Views Hyundai as "Strong Enemy"


I think this is a serious compliment paid Hyundai by Toyota.


(...Hyundai got to enjoy this distinct pleasure today when Toyota's chairman Fujio Cho told a group of Korean journalists that it was a "strong enemy".)
http://www.autoblog.com/category/toyota/page/9/

 

I didn't say HP and Torque are everything, it's useless arguing with you because I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're a Toyota fanboy, everything you say is biased and has no logic whatsoever and is based purely on emotion.

-Their marketing isn't working yet we're still talking about it
-Superbowl Ad is "forgettable" yet everyone still remembers it
-There is nothing special about Hyundai yet again, we're still talking about it and Toyota themselves see it as a threat
-The engine is weak yet it has similar specs to Lexus but Lexus isn't weak

It's plainly obvious that you have absolutely no clue as to what you're talking about and everything else you say comes back to that. Keep living in denial if you wish, you're not doing yourself any favors.

 

When the Genesis actually hits the market, it will be a good opportunity for CL members to meet each other in person.

There's going to be a lot of us (pro & con, as well as neutral on the car) at Hyundai dealerships checking out the new iron.

 

You misunderstood what I said. I said it's silly to think that there are no innovations or nothing unique about entry-level luxury models on the market today. You implied that all car companies make completely formulaic cars, and THAT is what I meant was silly and ignorant.

I AGREED with you with regards to the fact that innovations trickle down from higher end models.

What you stated are examples of people mistaking a Lexus for another Lexus or a Lexus for a Toyota. How often is a Lexus mistaken for another brand like Infiniti or BMW? Not often at all. And yes, from a distance or at night I can see myself easily mistaking the Genesis for several different cars.

Agreed, this is not equivalent or on the same scale as the original LS, but some people are making it seem like it is. I also agree that it's a relative small step and nothing huge.

I'll remember it .

Why are you assuming I'm writing them off ?

If you READ what I said, then you'll see that I'm simply stating the current facts of Hyundai sales.

To be clear, I think the Genesis is a nice new value-priced entry into the segment, but it's definitely not the "game-changing", brand-changing vehicle that some people here are saying it will be.

 

Keep thinking in absolutes.

What does the effectiveness of their marketing have to do with us talking about it? Please explain to me. There has been a lot of talk about the new TSX, but the talk has been mostly criticism.

Please show me where "everyone" still remembers it. I forgot those Superbowl ads.

There is nothing really special about the Genesis, other than the value proposition. Hyundai offers a value proposition, and Hyundai had a great thing going with offering more standard safety than the competition over the past few years. Now though the competition has caught up to Hyundai in terms of standard safety, and in some cases exceeded it. Toyota considers everyone a threat, no matter how small. It's all part of Toyota's corporate culture.

The engine has dissapointing torque specs compared to other V8s in the price range. You must know something nobody else does, since apart from the power figures no other specs on the Tau V8 have been released yet. We don't know the fuel economy or the emissions or any other additional specs.

Instead of making broad sweeping personal statements against me, you might want to try having an objective discussion.

 

You don't remember seeing the Genesis commercial? You're either lieing or didn't watch the superbowl. I'll show you that everyone remembers it when you show me that everyone forgot it.

My statements towards you are accurate IMO all you need is to look at your post history for proof, you are clearly not one to preach objective discussion, I don't even think you know how to be objective in any discussion that involves Toyota or Lexus. I know I haven't seen it, and I'm not just talking about this one thread.

 

Yes, I did see the commercials but I do not remember them. Why is that so hard to believe?

Like I said, you might want to try and have a meaningful debate or discussion instead of continuing to make broad personal attacks.

 

Isn't that an absolute statement on your part? And I disagree. I think the exterior styling is really special. I think it's BETTER than an ES350 or a 3-series sedan for example. I think it has a 'wow' factor, certainly more IMO than the other 2 I just mentioned.

I guess you think an M5's torque is disappointing too. 500HP and 383lb/ft of torque.

True, so there's little point in arguing over how good/bad the specs are.

It's better to just wait until the mags, mmarshall, and some of us can actually try one and of course here from actual owners.

 

It's not a personal attack, it's an observation. I think you are biased and I don't' think you know how to be objective, this is not a sweeping generalization, this is based on what I've read from you.

Furthermore, based on your own comments that seem to contradict themselves, I also don't think you know what you're talking about.

It is impossible to have any "meaningful" debate with someone who is so one-sided. These are my opinions based on my observations in the course of reading many of your posts. Some of the things I've read are borderline ridiculous IMO. Sorry if you feel that is a personal attack.

If you want to have a "meaningful" debate, perhaps you should ease up on this "Toyota is king and a 10hp Toyota > 100hp anything else" stance. Until that happens there is no such thing as a meaningful debate, it's simply an argument, and not a meaningful one.

 

Well then take it to PM, you can PM him. We are all not going to see eye to eye or agree with one another. It is the internet, we are people.

I don't want to see ANYONE ELSE try to judge ANYONE ELSE in this thread or you will be told to remove yourself from the thread.

This thread is about the HYUNDAI GENESIS.

 

I find it interesting that he called Hyundai a strong enemy, not a strong competitor. He's right. How can you compete with the Genesis? On paper it looks like it pretty much matches the GS460, BMW 550, E500, M45, all for half the price. So what are Lexus, BMW, MB, and Infiniti are to do, perhaps they should cut their prices in half and sell their cars at a major loss?

I'm interested how Hyundai is able to build this car and sell it for 30K, while not taking a major loss. I just don't see how is it possible unless they are using stolen technologies and abusing labor laws.

That unless Hyundai is willing to take a loss and use the low price as a bait, in order to jack the price up in the future. But should they jack the price up to anywhere near GS level, noone would take the Genesis seriously anymore.

 

Well, I have heard it said a few times that Tina Turner was put on this earth to show ladies exactly how to walk in high heels, so maybe Hyundai is about to demonstrate how to put out a first rate car at a very reasonable price though not quite with the same enthusiasm as would be paid Ms. Turner

Hyundai is using the ZF tranny, a world class tranny in the Genesis, and by now knows how to put a car engine together, I think it can be done at the price they are saying, there is a LOT of profit in cars though strangely I keep seeing claims there is not.

 

In the past few years Hyundai prices have been going up, and now in some cases match the established competition. Hyundai felt confident that it would continue to see sales increase in the US even if they raised prices, but that has turned out to not be the case. Hyundai now is forced to use incentives because the MSRP on some of their models is too high (compared to the competition). The Veracruz is a perfect example, as it's MSRP is right in-line with the established competition, which forces Hyundai to use heavy incentives.

I'm also wondering where do people keep getting the 30K figure from? Hyundai has not revealed prices yet. 30K will very likely be a mid-range V6 Genesis. I will say this right now, there is NO WAY you will see a loaded V8 Genesis for 30K. A loaded V8 Genesis will very likely approach or even exceed 40K. A loaded V6 Genesis should be in the mid 30K range.

 

True loaded v6 35K sounds about right. So don't expect to pay anything under that for loaded v8. Last time I checked a loaded avalon costs almost 40K and doesn't have all the nice features that come with genesis

 

Loaded V8 Genesis will definitely approach 40K if not exceed it. At that price it still offers a great value but at that price there are A LOT of good cars to choose from.