So since Acura is really a 3rd tier brand at this point and that is proven even more so as HYUNDAI has a V-8 and RWD and a 6 speed auto, well, advantage Hyundai.

I would rock the Genesis before any Acura. Believe that. I am IMPRESSED with this car.

Looking at how Hyundai management is today, they basically took a page out of Toyotas book and sit and watch and take notes. They have improved so much its not even funny, from laughing stock to solid competition.

Seriously, lets compare the FLAGSHIP RL to this. In 15 years, Acura can't figure out what to do.

Hyundai comes out the blue with this.

 

Sure it did, since early 80ies. In fact, the SC was the 3rd generation of the Soarer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Soarer

Altezza has been out since 1998 in Japan, but it launched as IS in US in 2001. Regardless of the badge, one look on the interior and it's clear that it's 99% Toyota, 1% Lexus.

Why, the original LX450 is just as sorry as the SLX. It was a rebadge of the LC, with pretty much nothing added. It didn't even have digital AC controls our luminous gauges. Nowadays Acura doesn't have anything to compete with the current humongous LX, but thier MDX is clearly superious to the GX, which is a rebadged souped up 4Runner.

Why, I think the ES is more of a rebadged Camry than TL is a rebadged Accord. At least the TL offers upgraded engine and Type-S version, while ES' powertrain is identical to Camry. The ES is a mere Camry rebadge with improved interior. As far as the RX, it is based on the Camry, and it was available as Toyota Harrier since 1997, even with Camry 4 cylinder engine, and only came to the US as RX300 in 1999.

Thats only true for the LS, the rest of Lexus line up existed as Toyota's before it received the Lexus badges. Even the GS, which you didn't mention, existed as Aristo since 1991 and launched in US as GS in 1993.

Even outside the engine the drive trains are very similar. Some trasmissions, brake systems, etc. You could even say the Lexus drivetrains are inferior to the Supras as you see many SC/GS/IS and even LS owners outfitting their Lexus with Supras brakes, gears, and LSDs.

Well, I don't know how much relationship the RL has to the Accord, afterall it has a completely different engine and drivetrain. As far as the TL, it may be made in America, but its still based on the Japanese Accord.

Well outside of the current MDX and RL, I'm no impressed by Acura either. But I'm even less so impressed by the Genesis. I don't think Acura cannot build a V8, I think it's just going through severe management problems. Considering Acura's/Honda's past achievements, I'm sure they could do it again and build an engine that would surpass not just this Hyundai, but anything in it's class. And besides the engine, the current RL's interior, exterior and build quality are already as top notch as they get. In fact, the RL's interior is superior to the GS interior in almost every way.

Well, I could understand why you would rather have the Genesis, but I'd take the RL over the Genesis without a second though - although that will change once the bastardized 2009 RL goes on sale.

However, are you equally impressed with this Genesis as you were with the original LS or Legend? I'm not. The LS and Legend were original, they brough a lot of new technology to the table, and geared to surpass the competition. Mercedes guys can say what they want, but the original LS was superior to the S class, and didn't copy a single styling clue. In fact, MB WB140 had ripped of a lot of its design from the LS. But Huyndai isn't shooting to surpass the competition, it doesnt bring anything new or original, it simply tries tries to copy and try to match their competition, while keeping the prices down. If the Genesis would be priced in the same range as it's competition, we wouldn't even be talking about it now.

 

I don't disagree fully, but on some points. When Acura brought over the Honda versions to be used as Acuras, they were all developed at the same time. The Legend itself came out at the same time both released as a Honda and Acura. Same with the Integra. Same with the Vigor/Saber. Same with the NSX. Same with the TL/Inspire. None of those cars existed as Honda's before the same model year release as Acura's. Unlike today where the TSX existed as Euro Accord and such.

However, I still think the RL is a much better can than the Genisis no matter if it only has SH-AWD. I'd buy the Genesis over the RL simply because of the price, but if I didn't know the price, I'd still take the RL even if it Genesis has more power and RWD. You may not agree, but I personally think the current RL interior is better than the GS on down. Only the LS in my personal opinion blows it away interior wise. But that is just me, because when I test drove and sat in both the RL and GS, the RL confort and feel felt like what the Lexus used to feel like to the Acura in the past. Just a little softer leather, more luxurious, more comfortable. Not by much, but noticeable to me.


As for Acura and Lexus taking different paths, they did that eventually. However, they started out the same. Offering a comparable or better car for cheaper compared to the Germans. Both the Legend and LS undercut the price of the 5 and 7 easily at the time of its introduction. The Genesis is doing the same thing. Offering a comparable or better car versus its Japanese competition. Germans as well, but I bet more Japanese luxury car buyers would consider the Hyundai Genesis versus German luxury car buyers at least for a while.

 

Although I agree that Acura should be doing more to develop a flagship car that is truly unique, and can compete against the flagship cars of other Lux brands, the arguments over what's "re-badged" beyond the flagship car seem, in some cases, to be somewhat irrelavent.

So a TSX is a "rebadged" Euro Accord? So what? The Euro Accord isn't available in the US. It's not like Honda is taking the Accord nameplate off, slapping on a TSX nameplate, and adding $$ to the price, ala the old Infiniti I30/35 and Nissan Maxima; Infiniti QX4 and Nissan Pathfinder; Infiniti QX56 and Nissan Armada; Lexus LX570 and Toyota Landcruiser. The TSX is a unique car to the US market. The Lexus IS is a unique car to the US market.

Take the Lexus ES350/Toyota Camry. Underneath, they are very much the same car. But styling and features are not exactly the same. Is an ES 350 a "rebadged" Camry--I don't know. Maybe it is. But BOTH sell like gangbusters, so Toyota seems to know what they are doing in that regard. The original ES250 looked EXACTLY like the Camry, but for the front grille. But--Lexus was a start up then, and there's just so much $$ they could spend to get a unique lineup to market. I don't think any ES looked like a clone of the Camry after that.

So there's part sharing between all models under a corporate nameplate--big deal. Every car maker does this.

I think the biggest problem that Hyundai will have is trying to sell a "Luxury" car. Mazda (929/Millenia), Mitsubishi (Diamante) and VW (Phaeton) failed at this--BUT, they tried to price their cars in the same range as cars that were direct competitors. Hyundai is going to undercut the price of cars that are comparably equiped, so I would think they will have more success. They will have to draw more of their customer base from buyers moving up to a Genesis, rather than moving from another luxury car, because I can't believe that Hyundai dealers will give buyers the same ownership experience that a lux car maker will. One of my co-workers had a Toureg, and he had to get the dealer to agree in writing to provide him a loaner for service. He told VW--I'm looking at Audis and BMWs as alternatives, and if you want me to buy this car which is supposed to "compete" with them, you must do the same. VW agreed. Hyundai will need to think about this aspect.

 

Bringing all those technology, luxury features, 375hp engine and RWD into the Genesis and pricing it in the $30k range is pretty innovative to me!
Like others have said - 99% of the people don't buy cars on their resume of innovations contributed to the automotive world BUT on what suits their needs and their price range.

Great car and great value in print - bottom line. We'll see how it performs once it's for sale. I say get rid of the "H" logo on the car and just badge everything "Genesis".

 

Can someone chop the newly released grill/hood design with a drop and rims?

 

good luck with 30k price when now 2009 Sonata is officially more expensive than Camry...

 

Hyundai's prices have definitely crept up recently. C&D magazine just did a comparo of 4 door 4 cyl family sedans, and the Sonata SEL as tested price was virtually the same as the Accord EX. It also cost more than most of the other cars tested (Camry, Altima, Malibu etc.).

 

And everyone in the country is driving a hybrid or a clean diesel right now? Are you implying that there is no place in the market for proven technologies, which were not invented 20 minutes ago?
If you want innovation, you need to look no further than F1. Everything is very innovative (they are usually several years ahead of military aircraft technology), but it takes cubic megadollars.

Your hypothetical scenario is unlikely. People buy cars for different reasons. And Hyundai is going for the people that don't care about the "image", but care about the product. I am not saying that everybody should be like that, but some customers are. That is called market economy.Some people don't want to pay more for a Camry (which is more expensive, allegedly, because of all the hybrid researching going on) because they don't want to drive a hybrid. Is that so ridiculous? May be someone does not want to pay (indirectly) for the cost of a research of a sub-particle space frequency modulator if all they need is a basic driver's car.
To get back to your hypothetical scenario of everyone buying a Hyundai and innovation as we know it coming to an abrupt halt: people that want innovation will be drawn to innovative auto manufacturers. And people that like value for money propositions with proven (but not cutting edge technologies) will go for Hyundai (or whoever else is catering to them). Demand and supply. Innovation to meet regulatory requirements and consumer consumption innovation are not the same thing. You seem to treat them the same.

Since you don't want to be associated with them, you seem to have voted with your wallet.
Let's see how other people vote.
Right now, this car is Hyundai's to screw up - they seem to have carved out a fairly unique niche with it.

 

Plus, if everyone stopped buying all other cars and bought Hyundai... duh, Hyundai would now have enough money to start doing some R&D of their own. It's just far fetched FUD. By pulling market share and profits away from the German luxury marques back in 1990, Lexus sucked their R&D $$$ away from them and so now all innovation has come to a complete halt. Lexus has done absolutely no R&D of their own after studying MB vehicles to design the LS. really now... Och, that is truly a ridiculous scenario.

 

Ummm, what you've described is ridiculous - Lexus spent more on R&D than any german company ever did before Lexus even launched. One billion dollars was spent on the original LS - and thats one billion back in the 80ies, that's like 10 billion today.

Honda and Toyota are what they are today because they were innovative since the very beginning, at least in the US market. They didn't wait to get big and get a lot of $$$ to start R&D, its actually the other way around, they made a lot of $$$ because they did R&D from the start and brought great products.

And as far as Huyndai doing R&D when they get enough money? Just look at GM - they had a crapload of cash, and didn't invest a penny into R&D for decades. They produced a 5.7 liter pushrod V8 engine in the mid 90ies with 180hp and fuel economy of an 18 wheeler while Honda got more power and quadripple fuel economy out of a 1.8 liter 4 cylinder.

 

I did some research on 'Lexicon' audio systems and only other brand that offers this setup is Rolls Royce! Never heard of it before but I guess it must be one of the best to be found in Rolls Royce vehicles.

Och-Hondas and Toyotas were innovative in ever since the beginning?? I don't know what you're smokin' but you need to get your facts straight. They were the POS's the same way Hyundai's were

 

I think Camry's price can be kept low because they're made in the U.S.

 

Lexicon is pretty darn good, but far from the best. My friend used to own a Home Theater/Home Audio store and I had the pleasure of hearing some really awesome systems in his demo room. He sold Lexicon as well as other high end stuff. Lexicon was always one of the middle high end stuff. It gave you a lot of what the big dollar systems offered, but at a reasonable price. There are so many ultra high end manufacturers that most people never heard of. Mark Levinson, HK, even Lexicon are just more house hold names that people associate with high end. It is high end, but not the best.

 

Read my reply again and try to comprehend the sarcasm, please. Thanks.