Tesla Full Self Driving Thread
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: IL
Oh, now I get it. I agree, you're probably an above average driver when compared to the entire US population. Not just those who have a drivers license.
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Lexus Champion
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From: California
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
Not sure why this triggers you guys so much. If you want a computer to drive you around great, I would rather drive myself.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,472
Likes: 958
From: IL
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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Likes: 3,998
From: Maryland
You're not understanding the "trigger" here. It has nothing to do with whether or not you want to drive yourself. By the way, with FSD, you're still responsible. Do you turn off things like rear cross traffic alerts, because you think you can see around corners better than the sensors? You probably hate auto lock brakes, too. Don't let those computers try and control your life!
The problem with the world is that people who drive worse than FSD are allowed to drive, vote, and post their braindead opinions on the internet, lol.
Last edited by Och; Apr 12, 2026 at 06:21 PM.
You're not understanding the "trigger" here. It has nothing to do with whether or not you want to drive yourself. By the way, with FSD, you're still responsible. Do you turn off things like rear cross traffic alerts, because you think you can see around corners better than the sensors? You probably hate auto lock brakes, too. Don't let those computers try and control your life!
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Pomposity and self-aggrandizing aside, the reality is the bar for being a "better than average" American driver is low. General driving standards here are poor, the quality of driver training is low, and the driving tests are almost comically easy to pass. I learned to drive in another country where most people learn to drive in a manual and the test itself is much more exacting, and as a result the safety stats are better and the quality of driving - be it better lane discipline, not lane hogging, better general courtesy and awareness - is better.
FSD is a nascent technology, but I already consider it to have easily surpassed the driving ability of the average American. And while the low driving standards continue to decline, FSD and similar systems are continually improving.
You have it the wrong way, it is the opposite. The data would be skewed if you excluded those drivers, because those drivers are very much out there every day in the general driving population. See comments above about why this might be.
Of course there are going to be issues, FSD is a nascent technology. But again, you have the wrong basis for comparison. FSD has logged just under 9.2 billion miles at the time of posting. The statistics tell you that if you were to look at 9.2 billion miles of equivalent human driving, you are going to find more examples of human error than FSD error.
Tesla is the insurer for a large number of its own cars. If there were an accident, it may be the driver who is liable but is the insurer - often Tesla - who would ultimately be on the hook
It's not a question of dismissing anyone as a "hater" or anyone being "pro FSD people". The reality is, as noted several times above, this is still a nascent technology and things will go wrong. The argument is that things will go wrong fewer times with FSD at the wheel than they would with a person, "above-average" or otherwise. You only have to look at the enhanced FSD visualizations for a clue as to why. The system is capable of tracking a massive number of vehicles and other potential obstacles in every direction around you. It's tracking those behind and to the side of you, whereas people will tend to focus mostly on what's ahead. And again, FSD is getting better and better.
Bottom line - the argument isn't that FSD doesn't do stupid things. The argument is that it will do them less often than a person, and that while still nascent FSD is getting better at a rapid pace while the standard of human driving is gradually declining.
FSD is a nascent technology, but I already consider it to have easily surpassed the driving ability of the average American. And while the low driving standards continue to decline, FSD and similar systems are continually improving.
You have it the wrong way, it is the opposite. The data would be skewed if you excluded those drivers, because those drivers are very much out there every day in the general driving population. See comments above about why this might be.
Of course there are going to be issues, FSD is a nascent technology. But again, you have the wrong basis for comparison. FSD has logged just under 9.2 billion miles at the time of posting. The statistics tell you that if you were to look at 9.2 billion miles of equivalent human driving, you are going to find more examples of human error than FSD error.
Tesla is the insurer for a large number of its own cars. If there were an accident, it may be the driver who is liable but is the insurer - often Tesla - who would ultimately be on the hook
It's not a question of dismissing anyone as a "hater" or anyone being "pro FSD people". The reality is, as noted several times above, this is still a nascent technology and things will go wrong. The argument is that things will go wrong fewer times with FSD at the wheel than they would with a person, "above-average" or otherwise. You only have to look at the enhanced FSD visualizations for a clue as to why. The system is capable of tracking a massive number of vehicles and other potential obstacles in every direction around you. It's tracking those behind and to the side of you, whereas people will tend to focus mostly on what's ahead. And again, FSD is getting better and better.
Bottom line - the argument isn't that FSD doesn't do stupid things. The argument is that it will do them less often than a person, and that while still nascent FSD is getting better at a rapid pace while the standard of human driving is gradually declining.
100% agree. I learned to drive in another country with much more stringent testing requirements.
You misinterpret what I said...or I didn't explain it correctly. I am not going to use that statistic to compare myself vs FSD. I don't drink, don't use my phone while driving and I am experienced. Mixing myself with drunk drivers, etc is skewing the data if I am suppose to compare myself and people like me vs FSD. We have no statistics excluding drivers that doesn't fit in my driving profile. So Saying myself or SW17LS are wrong for thinking we are better than FSD is not provable by the stats you provided.
If I was suppose to look at the statistics of people who don't drive while intoxicated, use their phone while driving and is experienced, it may be the opposite.
Are you saying because Tesla insures its own vehicles that is them taking accountability if FSD fails?
In addition, the statistics Tesla use includes every other non tesla car on the road made from 1930s - 2026. Many newer cars have a ton of safety features to prevent accidents. For example, blind spot monitor has a 23% reduction in accidents https://www.itskrs.its.dot.gov/2019-b01384.
So who is to say FSD is even better than a 2026 vehicle with all the safety features available and an average driver?
Out of the 10 billion miles of FSD, how much of it is during bad weather? Do FSD users commonly use it during snow / ice? torrential rain? How much percent of that 10 billion miles of FSD is during bad weather compared to the same 10 billion miles of humans? I would estimate 40-45% of FSD miles are in California, famous for great weather year round.
As I said, this statistics that is used is extremely favorable to Tesla. However, imo it has many holes which makes it inaccurate.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
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From: San Diego, CA
Who has said that, Blaze? Ive never seen that claim here. I have two vehicles with self driving capability, and both absolutely require you to pay attention and both actively monitor that you are doing just that. It doesn’t matter how confident you are in FSD, it requires the same attention regardless and if you aren’t the systems will require you to retake control. Tesla takes this a step further and will suspend your use of FSD if you get too many forced disengagements. The thresholds are reasonable. You can glance away from time to time, just as you would if you were driving without FSD or similar in control. But there is absolutely a reasonable minimum requirement, and you can’t opt for a lesser standard just because you personally have a high level of confidence in FSD.
Who has said that, Blaze? Ive never seen that claim here. I have two vehicles with self driving capability, and both absolutely require you to pay attention and both actively monitor that you are doing just that. It doesn’t matter how confident you are in FSD, it requires the same attention regardless and if you aren’t the systems will require you to retake control. Tesla takes this a step further and will suspend your use of FSD if you get too many forced disengagements. The thresholds are reasonable. You can glance away from time to time, just as you would if you were driving without FSD or similar in control. But there is absolutely a reasonable minimum requirement, and you can’t opt for a lesser standard just because you personally have a high level of confidence in FSD.
I've stated in this very thread the safest driver is probably an attentive driver using FSD. My argument has always been using FSD while not paying attention is not something I am willing to do.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,472
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From: IL
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
I tried replying to your earlier post but mods not allowing it :/. I sent a PM.
I've stated in this very thread the safest driver is probably an attentive driver using FSD. My argument has always been using FSD while not paying attention is not something I am willing to do.
I've stated in this very thread the safest driver is probably an attentive driver using FSD. My argument has always been using FSD while not paying attention is not something I am willing to do.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,955
Likes: 1,579
From: San Diego, CA
I tried replying to your earlier post but mods not allowing it :/. I sent a PM.
I've stated in this very thread the safest driver is probably an attentive driver using FSD. My argument has always been using FSD while not paying attention is not something I am willing to do.
I've stated in this very thread the safest driver is probably an attentive driver using FSD. My argument has always been using FSD while not paying attention is not something I am willing to do.
