They do.

Down 9.6% last year: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2023-01-04/

Down 8.8% in Q1 2023: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...88-2023-04-03/

A big part of that, IMO, is their vehicle line up. Toyota could and should be a leader in the BEV segment, but for now they're a laggard.

Toyota is obviously not going away any time soon. But at one point, neither were Blockbuster or countless others in industry-leading positions, and the common connection between them was a failure to respond to changing market conditions.

 

Toyota missed the moment big time, but that doesn't mean they are "done for", they will survive.

 

Holy **** was this a clickbait thread.

The answer to "IS ______ Automaker done for?" is almost always NO. And if it's yes, it's going to be a struggling automaker like Mitsubishi(at least in the US) before Toyota.

Always think "is this headline sensational?" when evaluating a news source. Youtube channels get an automatic downgrade in credibility for me, especially idiots like Scotty Kilmer and the like who thrive off drama and sensationalism.

 

Absolutely. There’s a “law” known as Betteridge’s Law that essentially says that any headline which is posed in the form of a question can safely be answered “no”.

 

it’s for sure a bait to me.
Many of us here owned or have owned a long list of Lexus. If you have come to an LS, you should know this video is bogus. I’m not a fan of Lexus as of now but Toyota/Lexus isn’t going anywhere at least during our lifetime.

 

Sales are down from last year from what you all are reporting.
But I wonder sometimes what the numbers would look like without a supply chain issue aka short supply causing ADMs aka making other competing products more attractive.

Another words, what would the numbers be if they were readily available in numbers that made ADM's pointless and get incentives to buy it too like competing EV brands.


I've never heard of that law but I think I like it!

Question mark in the title is a red flag. IMO

 

So many examples of companies that could not fail, it was impossible. They were too rich, too powerful, too much market share. And then they became history.

Toyota is dying if you choose to pay attention. Decades of momentum makes it seem like everything is fine it hides the true state of the company. For example the argument that Toyota has nothing to worry about because they have so many models in the top 10 best sellers. Look deeper, Tesla Model Y costs 2x the Corolla and it outselling it. What do you think will happen when Tesla has more capacity and enters more markets (they are not relevant in many). Then the $25,000 Tesla hits, at that point no one is going to want a Corolla it will become Blackberry vs. Apple. And Tesla is going to scale which means reduced cost per vehicle, and they will cut prices. At that point Toyota will have to sell at a loss to compete, and hope people are loyal enough to keep buying the brand. Problem is the #1 conquest brand for Tesla is Toyota.

There would be some hope if Toyota was legit serious about EVs, they are not. Just recently they again tried to tell us hybrids are way better because you can build 67 cars with the same amount of batteries it takes to build one EV. This is as disingenuous as it gets, and speaks volumes of how Toyota sees things. Only way the argument works is if these hybrids don't have a gas engine. Toyota is trying to say let's build hybrids to save the environment, see we can build so many more cars with the same amount of batteries. This is blatant misinformation at best.

I know the apologists will attack the above, have at it. Bookmark this and we'll revisit in a few years. These same apologists vehemently said Tesla will never succeed and hydrogen was the next thing.

 

If Toyota fails, I will buy you a Tesla lol

 

there's fail, and there's become a shadow of their former self... i think the latter could happen to toyota, although most likely they will acquire someone to battle their way out of being so far behind.

toyota of late reminds me of 'research in motion'. who? exactly. RIM created the Blackberry smart phone. it was ENORMOUSLY successful. until the iphone.
then the RIM fans were saying 'but the iphone doesn't have a real keyboard, no one's going to give that up'. um, yeah.
then the RIM fans were saying 'the blackberry communication mechanism is more secure'. well apple made the iphone secure.
then apple did cameras, and photo sharing, and a decnet app store, and music, and... the rest is history.

toyota won't disappear, but i think they're in real trouble. their latest grand highlander, tacoma, corolla cross, are decent in their segments, but the sequoia and tundra are not class leading.
as for lexus, well, they're 'ok' but obviously the german brands and now genesis are constant threats all around, and they all have EVs already. lexus has the rz... weak.

besides cars, tesla built an entire national recharging network... how incredible is that? they've built a ton in other parts of the world too.

the majority of the public is not likely to buy an ev any time soon, but in 5 years... could be a very different picture.

 

I really didn't want to delve to deep into this discussion, but here is my opinion on this. For people like me (former Toyota customers), they no longer make a compelling product. I'll never buy another brand new Toyota/Lexus product again. And I suspect there are a lot of people like me. Not because I don't like the company, it's because their vehicles no longer speak to me. But there are still a lot of loyal Toyota customers around the world, and they still sell a lot of cars, SUV'S, and trucks. A lot. And they are still bringing in a large revenue stream, and are still profitable. For at least the next 5 to 10 years, they are not going anywhere. IMHO of course.

But... and there is always a but, their sales numbers on their popular bread and butter vehicles are on a slow downward trajectory. Their hybrids are losing market share as well. If this continues, it could spell disaster in the future. This is also just my opinion, but my belief is that they misjudged the market, and made some pretty bad decisions. They could have been a leader, but now they are a follower that is way behind.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, now I'm bracing myself for some flogging

 

I think Toyota will always have a very strong base of customers who don't really care or think about cars very much, they just need a car for transportation and conventional wisdom is "Toyotas are reliable".

 

'always' is a long time and that 'strong base' gets older (and dying off) every day.
i think the 'kids' would all buy ev's if they could afford them and had a way to charge them at home.

 

THIS I agree is possible…to become a shadow of its former self.

 

I hope you are right, for Toyota's sake. Because the younger generations coming up in the world don't really care about "Toyota reliability" the way my generation (I'm in my 50's) does

 

Model 3 is more reliable than a mid sized Toyota.