We have a 2013 GS and unless there was something wrong in the 3 LS500's I have been in I would say the LS500 non-panoramic roof has at least 1 to 1.5" less head room with the seats completely lowered. I know I have *****ed about this in previous posts but who they could design a LS with less headroom than a GS is crazy

 

I would agree about the LS500, but not the LS460.

 

Hhhmmm... IDK about that theory.

What happens to all the 3-5 yr old MB's/Audi's/BMW's that are sitting on dealers lots? Who'd want to buy them?

Look, from my perspective, the ONLY reason(s) for my loyalty to Lexus are:

1) Reliability
2) Customer service
3) Flip #1/#2

Right now with the reviews I'm reading about the LS500.... I wonder if those 2 will be enough for me to hang on. I want a nice... aggressive... bad *** large sedan...
Withholding judgement until the next week or 2 until I get behind the wheel of the 500 FSport

 

That's fair. Wasn't sure if height would affect torsional rigidity but the Highlander / Camry is a good point.

I don't think so. Young millennials could care less about the prestige luxury segment. increasingly in LA these people choose not to have a car at all; using bikes and Uber for transportation. The LS demographic is what it always was; rich middle aged guys who want a nice car.

And then me and Steve

That being said Lexus may be looking for a younger demographic; the ones for which the X6 / CLS / 6 Grande Coupe products' style more than makes up for their lack of functional space. But it's old guys who want to look younger and sportier not young people. Never was.
The 430 V8 feels punchier than the 460 until you really cane it. The UR engine is quite peaky actually.

Don't forget the 460 by the end just wasn't selling. It's 10 years old. While it's still a great car that's obsolete in this market. If you want a big, comfy riding car buy an ES. It's not that much smaller than a SWB LS inside.

Re the LS500; quibbles aside I like the risk they have taken here; they are obviously targeting more of a Panamera / Quattroporte product than an S class / 7 series. But this is probably more to do with the general state of the segment than anything Lexus chose to do.

Sales for the whole prestige luxury segment are probably down half compared to 20 years ago. If you take out the Mercedes S class that number probably drops even more; as the 7 series and A8 don't sell in huge numbers. Infiniti abandoned the segment; and Jaguar sales are growing but still not a huge factor yet. Lincoln and Cadillac don't really have competitors at this level and probably won't make the investment because the sales numbers are so small.

Many of the customers for these cars have gone to full size SUVs or crossovers because increasingly they offer more space, similar levels of luxury, adequate power, and more utility. Anybody who really cares about performance will buy a sports car; so the lesser handling capability is probably a non-issue. Livery companies, private fleets, rich people with a car and driver increasingly have many luxe SUVs to choose from. Those SUVs take one of the main reasons to buy a large sedan--interior space-- and do it much better. When Rolls Royce builds an SUV you know the tide has changed.

So Lexus is trying to figure out how to be in the segment and still make money; witness the GA-L platform which will spread like kudzu across the Lexus line. Similarly Audi uses a platform that increasingly shares bits with the Bentley Continental and the departed Phaeton; Mercedes has spun the S class off into 6 separate variants (including much more profitable and opulent Maybach models) and BMW has in the past recycled the 7 series platform into... ahem an SUV (the 5 series GT).

So in this climate I'm sure Lexus felt the need to make the 5LS distinctive; witness the cut class; folded pleats and amazing style. Volvo obviously got the same memo; witness their phenomenal design over the last couple years.

I hope the 5LS does well; remember everybody hated the Bangle butt 2002 7 series but it's actually the best selling 7 of all time.

Sometimes you really have to burn the boats.

As for me I feel like I'm kinda done with large sedans anyway. Until I can swing an LC I'm looking for a later model SC400....

 

If we increase the height from the floor to the waistline, then we actually increase the torsional rigidity and bending stiffness, as the box section of the vehicle becomes taller and deeper.
However, if we increase the height by lengthening the pillars and making the glass canopy taller, then the rigidity is decreased.
That's why CLS/AMG GT and 6 Series/M8 Series actually make the pillars shorter reducing the height of the canopy.

 

LS 500 Window Price Sheet

 

Thanks for the pics. That just doesn't look like a high end luxury car interior to me. Compare that to the new S450 interior and it looks closer to an Avalon Limited than an S-Class Benz.

 

To be fair that is an F Sport, and that is about the loudest interior combo you can get.

The upgraded luxury interior is absolutely a high end luxury interior every bit.

 

Maybe the S Class has more chrome or whatever.
Plus deep red to attract more middle aged buyers.
While 5LS uses bright red to attract young millennials.

 

 

Unfortunately, the S Class sedan, even in AMG Sports, is only available in very conservative colors if I'm not wrong.
It's so amazing how the S Class targets the more mature buyer, while 5LS targets young millennials.

 

From the photos, I prefer the 5LS's interior to the S-Class. The faux classic look doesn't come across as very appealing to me. Then again, the 5LS's interior looks better in person than in photos... so that might also apply when one actually sits inside the S-Class.

 

In 12 months time, it will be interesting to see who has the right formula - between S Class targeting middle aged buyers, or 5LS targeting young millennials.

I suspect S Class will win the public because Mercedes has two body style variations in the genuine sporty niche AMG GT 4 door Gran Coupe to give the sporty image.

TMC is not new to making two body styles - just look at RAV4 & NX, or Avalon & ES etc.
I suspect that TMC is actually after profits, and indeed TMC is the wealthiest auto manufacturer in the world with equity of some $151 billion dollars, and creating two full size luxury sedan body styles puts a dent into profits.

However, if TMC is to have only one body style for 5LS, it may be best to stick to a conventional full size luxury sedan over 4 door Gran Coupe design similar to Panamera & Benz AMG GT etc, since 5LS could go down as the most unpopular LS in history if the Panamera-type sporty niche 5LS doesn't sell well.

Young millennials certainly do buy full size luxury sedans, but I suspect the bulk of full size luxury sedan buyers are still middle aged.
.

 

On a related note, renderings of the next generation ES look very similar to the 5LS!

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/03/...us-es-sedan-3/

 

Well - Here are my 2 cents worth - with my current LEXUS stable consisting of 2014 F sport LS & 2015 LX 570.

Drove bothe the F-Sport LS and a loaded version with Lux package with MSRP of $100.819

Underwhelmed would be the kindest I can put it.

I had just picked up my 2014 F Sport from the detailer - drove to the dealer - and met up with an amazing young sales professional (no - Master Sales consultant) who was VERY knowledgeable and experienced.

He complimented my ride - especially the Flaxen interior...

Though he was very knowledgeable, and had track driven the new LS at Sears Point recently - he was almost apologetic describing the features and benefits of the new car.

He reiterated that the price point of the LS500 is the low level 740...low trim A8, six banger S-Class.
True - but what does LEXUS offer a tad higher up?
Nothing.

The exterior styling is ... new -
But the interior - and overall - is lackluster...
(Honestly if both the cars - my 2014 and a 2018 were side by side - I would be hard pressed to choose the 2018)

It is smaller (sure looks and feels it)
The engine is louder and working harder (Lux to me is effortless whafting ...sort of )

The info controls suck.
The cruise controls - Lane departure and collision avoidance are the same...4 years and no improvement?

The interior is just too busy....trying too hard.

But mostly - GRAVITAS is gone. The 2014 feels like a bank vault on wheels - the 2018...no.

....it really feels like a high end mid level sedan....an E class of 5 Series with all the options.... maybe even Aziera or Maxima - don't even get me started on the GENESIS.

If you want BAD *** - this is NOT IT.
This plays into grey haired Florida ......AARP.....that want good 30 mpg economy.

Frankly I was glad to get back into my 2014 and motor home -
I put my V-8 into Sport+ and enjoyed the punch and ride.

I definitely won't be trading in my 2014 for a 2018 LS

If they have a higher performance LS next year (with the LC engine?) or a higher performance LC - or convertible LC - I'm in....
But the LS is just not a top level sedan anymore.

But.....the ownership experience - sales and service - is the BEST...

Sigh.....