Finally test drove the LS500...
03-08-18, 04:53 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Bear in mind $100,000 is a totally loaded LS500. As Lexus said, most LS500s will sell for under $85k.
03-12-18, 08:53 AM
#62
Someone on this board asked if the S550 w/ night vision and driver assistance pkg has any issues. I have a 2017 S550 with the driver's assistance package (no night vision) but many other options and they all work very well. I have fallen in love the S550. After 4 LS sedans, I was hoping the 5LS would be amazing, and it's not. I'm glad I didn't wait. And as to refresh cycles that someone else mentioned, Lexus LS had a 6 year refresh cycle. (After 3 years a facelift and minor upgrades and after 6 years a new car). The 4LS came out in 2007 (10 years ago) and has gone through 2 face lifts. (So has The Lexus LX and Toyota Tundra by the way). Mercedes has an 8 year cycle for the S-class. with a refresh at the 4-year mark. Had I purchased the Lexus LS last year it would have been a car with 10 year old design and technology. I know Lexus (and Toyota) went cheap during the recession and opted for a 2nd refresh after the 6 year mark (or so) instead of launching a new car, but that's not a winning formula. (The LX-470 was 10 years on the market as well, so buyers who leased them, ended up having to lease the exact same car 3 times, so instead they got bored and moved on to another vehicle. They then launched the LX-570 which was much bigger and much more expensive than the LX-470 and lost a ton of sales) If Lexus wants to be successful (IMHO) They need to go back to 6-year cycles on all their cars and design their LS sedans for the older crowd that can afford these cars and want a very quiet, very smooth effortless driving, somewhat conservative luxury sedan. On a side note, my wife has a 2012 RX-350 and wants a new car. She got to drive the new RX when I got one as a loaner while hers was in service. She liked the way it drove and felt but could not get over the looks. She too is done with Lexus. She fits the RX buyer profile perfectly (late 50s, makes a very good income, she's classy, she likes luxury cars, has driven 3 LS sedans and one RX over the last 20 years, etc) It does not bode well for Lexus if they can't keep their core clients. I hope there are enough younger buyers ready to step up and by Lexus vehicles, because the feel on this board (and many others) is that Lexus' core customers are not happy with the massive front-end grill, making their luxury cars sportier, long replacement cycles, and a more complicated user interface. (Yes, on the new LS one must scroll through several menus to get to the seat warmers, and once there, the controls are not logical. How do you screw that one up Lexus?)
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03-12-18, 09:17 AM
#63
Someone on this board asked if the S550 w/ night vision and driver assistance pkg has any issues. I have a 2017 S550 with the driver's assistance package (no night vision) but many other options and they all work very well. I have fallen in love the S550. After 4 LS sedans, I was hoping the 5LS would be amazing, and it's not. I'm glad I didn't wait. And as to refresh cycles that someone else mentioned, Lexus LS had a 6 year refresh cycle. (After 3 years a facelift and minor upgrades and after 6 years a new car). The 4LS came out in 2007 (10 years ago) and has gone through 2 face lifts. (So has The Lexus LX and Toyota Tundra by the way). Mercedes has an 8 year cycle for the S-class. with a refresh at the 4-year mark. Had I purchased the Lexus LS last year it would have been a car with 10 year old design and technology. I know Lexus (and Toyota) went cheap during the recession and opted for a 2nd refresh after the 6 year mark (or so) instead of launching a new car, but that's not a winning formula. (The LX-470 was 10 years on the market as well, so buyers who leased them, ended up having to lease the exact same car 3 times, so instead they got bored and moved on to another vehicle. They then launched the LX-570 which was much bigger and much more expensive than the LX-470 and lost a ton of sales) If Lexus wants to be successful (IMHO) They need to go back to 6-year cycles on all their cars and design their LS sedans for the older crowd that can afford these cars and want a very quiet, very smooth effortless driving, somewhat conservative luxury sedan. On a side note, my wife has a 2012 RX-350 and wants a new car. She got to drive the new RX when I got one as a loaner while hers was in service. She liked the way it drove and felt but could not get over the looks. She too is done with Lexus. She fits the RX buyer profile perfectly (late 50s, makes a very good income, she's classy, she likes luxury cars, has driven 3 LS sedans and one RX over the last 20 years, etc) It does not bode well for Lexus if they can't keep their core clients. I hope there are enough younger buyers ready to step up and by Lexus vehicles, because the feel on this board (and many others) is that Lexus' core customers are not happy with the massive front-end grill, making their luxury cars sportier, long replacement cycles, and a more complicated user interface. (Yes, on the new LS one must scroll through several menus to get to the seat warmers, and once there, the controls are not logical. How do you screw that one up Lexus?)
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neilsarkar (03-21-18)
03-12-18, 03:14 PM
#64
I too prefer the Lexus of yesteryears... just a calm and serene ride with an isolated driving experience. Unfortunately it seems the shift is towards handling and a sportier ride nowadays. Lexus has a tough decision to make as a brand going forward. Either way, it will alienate one crowd unless it manages to strike a balance, but that balance is very difficult (if not impossible) to achieve. I traded my 2014 LS in somewhat reluctantly. It was still driving very well but, as you mentioned, it has 10-year old technology. The LS 500 is sportier than I like but still something I can accept. And I find that the car grows on you, just like how the LS 460 grew on me. I once had a 2017 RX as a loaner when I sent my vehicle in for servicing. The engine made such a deep growl / drone during acceleration that I thought something was wrong with the car!
03-12-18, 07:38 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
I agree with you, Frank. Unfortunately, I think Lexus is going to discover over time that wanting a roomy, comfortable, luxury ride vs. a sportier ride, is not a generational thing but rather, it is a function of age. When the younger generations they are courting now get into their late 50's and higher, they are going to turn away from sportiness and look for comfort. What I don't understand is why Lexus can't see this. Human beings have always been that way and always will.
Right, and FWIW, I bought my LS at age 30. I'm now 36 and the new LS doesn't do it for me overall. My last car was a high strung sports sedan (6spd Acura TL) that I rather liked, but I couldn't get rid of it fast enough for the LS (and friends lightheartedly made fun of me for buying an "old man car"--I couldn't have cared less). Luxury and comfort over sportiness, every day of the week for me.
03-12-18, 07:45 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Right, and FWIW, I bought my LS at age 30. I'm now 36 and the new LS doesn't do it for me overall. My last car was a high strung sports sedan (6spd Acura TL) that I rather liked, but I couldn't get rid of it fast enough for the LS (and friends lightheartedly made fun of me for buying an "old man car"--I couldn't have cared less). Luxury and comfort over sportiness, every day of the week for me.
03-12-18, 08:34 PM
#67
I must not be typical either. I'm 43 and have found out I can use Luxury and Comfort much more than Sport. Traffic in my suburban area is just too much to enjoy sport anymore. Pickup trucks and muscle cars drag racing all the time where I live....I just try to stay out of their way. I've had my IS 300, RC F, and Macan S. I'm really enjoying the LX now! I really like the climate concierge feature. It's so nice to have the seat heating and cooling and steering wheel heating adjust to the temperature automatically. Lexus has done Luxury, Comfort, Quietness, Service, and Reliability so well!!! I hope they don't lose it in the pursuit of sport and excitement.
Last edited by Frog98; 03-12-18 at 08:41 PM.
03-12-18, 11:45 PM
#68
I test drove a LS500 and an S450 back to back on Sat with 2 friends. We all preferred the S Class. More back seat room, easier controls, better ride quality. The only thing the LS did better was the amazing HUD. Also the fact that there are no buttons for heated and cooled seats is crazy! We had to pull over to dig thru a menu to turn off the steering wheel heater that was burning up my hands!
03-13-18, 03:45 AM
#69
Pole Position
I agree with you, Frank. Unfortunately, I think Lexus is going to discover over time that wanting a roomy, comfortable, luxury ride vs. a sportier ride, is not a generational thing but rather, it is a function of age. When the younger generations they are courting now get into their late 50's and higher, they are going to turn away from sportiness and look for comfort. What I don't understand is why Lexus can't see this. Human beings have always been that way and always will.
03-13-18, 05:32 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Again guys, don’t go on about the LS500 like it’s a rock hard sports car, it isn’t. It actually has a great ride, a much better ride than I anticipated on the air suspension.
If if had more room in the back I’d be a lot more enthusiastic about the car.
Its a lot more athletic than the S Class despite also still having a very nice ride. Will be plenty of people to whom that will be appealing.
If if had more room in the back I’d be a lot more enthusiastic about the car.
Its a lot more athletic than the S Class despite also still having a very nice ride. Will be plenty of people to whom that will be appealing.
03-13-18, 07:39 AM
#71
I test drove a LS500 and an S450 back to back on Sat with 2 friends. We all preferred the S Class. More back seat room, easier controls, better ride quality. The only thing the LS did better was the amazing HUD. Also the fact that there are no buttons for heated and cooled seats is crazy! We had to pull over to dig thru a menu to turn off the steering wheel heater that was burning up my hands!
Exterior styling: I don't think either are stunning, but I like the Lexus better
Interior Styling: Lexus
Interior comfort: Mercedes has more rear seat leg room. My wife felt cramped in the Lexus
Trunk: Mercedes 19cf vs Lexus 17cf, but the Mercedes trunk gets smaller as you add various options (Warmth & Comfort, Rear seat package, 3D sound, etc). I still don't understand how the Lexus got longer, and the trunk got smaller
Engine: power is about the same, but Mercedes seemed smoother and quieter.
Ride Quality: Mercedes
Handling: About the same for my type of driving
Touchpad: Mercedes. I really expected more from Lexus here.
Price: Lexus is about $10k cheaper for the options I would get.
I'm likely switching the S450. If my LS had fewer miles, I would keep it and wait to see if Lexus improves things in a few years.
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aypues (03-14-18)
03-13-18, 10:01 AM
#72
I test drove a LS500 and an S450 back to back on Sat with 2 friends. We all preferred the S Class. More back seat room, easier controls, better ride quality. The only thing the LS did better was the amazing HUD. Also the fact that there are no buttons for heated and cooled seats is crazy! We had to pull over to dig thru a menu to turn off the steering wheel heater that was burning up my hands!
03-13-18, 01:03 PM
#73
My wife and I did the same thing (and on the same roads) Here's my view.
Exterior styling: I don't think either are stunning, but I like the Lexus better
Interior Styling: Lexus
Interior comfort: Mercedes has more rear seat leg room. My wife felt cramped in the Lexus
Trunk: Mercedes 19cf vs Lexus 17cf, but the Mercedes trunk gets smaller as you add various options (Warmth & Comfort, Rear seat package, 3D sound, etc). I still don't understand how the Lexus got longer, and the trunk got smaller
Engine: power is about the same, but Mercedes seemed smoother and quieter.
Ride Quality: Mercedes
Handling: About the same for my type of driving
Touchpad: Mercedes. I really expected more from Lexus here.
Price: Lexus is about $10k cheaper for the options I would get.
I'm likely switching the S450. If my LS had fewer miles, I would keep it and wait to see if Lexus improves things in a few years.
Exterior styling: I don't think either are stunning, but I like the Lexus better
Interior Styling: Lexus
Interior comfort: Mercedes has more rear seat leg room. My wife felt cramped in the Lexus
Trunk: Mercedes 19cf vs Lexus 17cf, but the Mercedes trunk gets smaller as you add various options (Warmth & Comfort, Rear seat package, 3D sound, etc). I still don't understand how the Lexus got longer, and the trunk got smaller
Engine: power is about the same, but Mercedes seemed smoother and quieter.
Ride Quality: Mercedes
Handling: About the same for my type of driving
Touchpad: Mercedes. I really expected more from Lexus here.
Price: Lexus is about $10k cheaper for the options I would get.
I'm likely switching the S450. If my LS had fewer miles, I would keep it and wait to see if Lexus improves things in a few years.
Both the in-line six configuration and the lower reciprocating mass from the smaller displacement of only 3.0L vs 5LS' 3.5L, ensures that Benz idles more smoothly and quietly, and revs more smoothly and quietly.
Theoretically, the 5LS' bigger displacement of 3.5L should give more power and torque, however the Benz does hit back with an electric turbo that accelerates to 70,000 rpm in just 2 milliseconds - hence not a huge difference in performance between the two.
03-13-18, 01:15 PM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The Benz has a 3.0L in-line six eTT.
Both the in-line six configuration and the lower reciprocating mass from the smaller displacement of only 3.0L vs 5LS' 3.5L, ensures that Benz idles more smoothly and quietly, and revs more smoothly and quietly.
Theoretically, the 5LS' bigger displacement of 3.5L should give more power and torque, however the Benz does hit back with an electric turbo that accelerates to 70,000 rpm in just 2 milliseconds - hence not a huge difference in performance between the two.
Both the in-line six configuration and the lower reciprocating mass from the smaller displacement of only 3.0L vs 5LS' 3.5L, ensures that Benz idles more smoothly and quietly, and revs more smoothly and quietly.
Theoretically, the 5LS' bigger displacement of 3.5L should give more power and torque, however the Benz does hit back with an electric turbo that accelerates to 70,000 rpm in just 2 milliseconds - hence not a huge difference in performance between the two.
03-13-18, 01:21 PM
#75
However, the old Chrysler Pentastar-based 60 degree 3.0L V6 TT in the Benz should be even easier to directly compare with Lexus 5LS 3.5L TT.
The Benz' smaller displacement results in less power & torque, but the lighter reciprocating mass results in a smoother and quieter idle and revving.