Finally test drove the LS500...
03-07-18, 02:18 PM
#46
Our posts are only our opinions - our 2 cent contributions.
However, there will always be opinionated self-righteous posters who value their opinions more, and like to rubbish the opinions of others.
The thing to do, is to be positive and voice our opinion, without criticizing the opinions of others.
.
However, there will always be opinionated self-righteous posters who value their opinions more, and like to rubbish the opinions of others.
The thing to do, is to be positive and voice our opinion, without criticizing the opinions of others.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 03-07-18 at 02:26 PM.
03-07-18, 06:58 PM
#47
Those are my replacement thoughts too:
new or used S450/550, Panamera
I'm most likely to get a 2016 S550. S550 has a great night vision system, 6 dvd changer, much smoother ride, quieter
new or used S450/550, Panamera
I'm most likely to get a 2016 S550. S550 has a great night vision system, 6 dvd changer, much smoother ride, quieter
03-07-18, 07:07 PM
#48
You're obviously a smart guy, but why do you say:
"I would never look at a BMW 7 series or Mercedes these days."
I'm asking because I'm leaning toward a 2016 S550.
If it's solely reliability, I don't think there is significant difference btwn 2016 or newer MB and Lexus.
Additionally, the S class gets all around better performance because it is a more intricate/full feature design.
ergo, more repairs should be expected.
I have a 2009 LS460 AWD and I have repair bills that prove Lexus is not infallible.
"I would never look at a BMW 7 series or Mercedes these days."
I'm asking because I'm leaning toward a 2016 S550.
If it's solely reliability, I don't think there is significant difference btwn 2016 or newer MB and Lexus.
Additionally, the S class gets all around better performance because it is a more intricate/full feature design.
ergo, more repairs should be expected.
I have a 2009 LS460 AWD and I have repair bills that prove Lexus is not infallible.
03-07-18, 07:19 PM
#51
Finally a comment on quietness, and even measured! (I have meters too)
If you're really into quietness, nothing beats the MB S class
I saw one video review of the LS500 where the driver stomped on it and it made the 6 cyl boy racer sound.
No thank you.
If you're really into quietness, nothing beats the MB S class
I saw one video review of the LS500 where the driver stomped on it and it made the 6 cyl boy racer sound.
No thank you.
03-07-18, 07:23 PM
#52
Speaking of F sport.
Am I correct it's the same engine/same power for the LS500?
Other than the larger/more fragile/expensive wheels, Is it all about the badge?
Don't think AMG has the same approach
Am I correct it's the same engine/same power for the LS500?
Other than the larger/more fragile/expensive wheels, Is it all about the badge?
Don't think AMG has the same approach
03-07-18, 07:27 PM
#53
I think it will be the end of the road (but I'm not even a tad worried about it)
Similar break happened for the Supra,
they try again about a decade later.
Back during ls400/ls430 times, the competition was gliding and their reliability sucked.
Now competition has largely caught up, so there are no "easy pickens"
Similar break happened for the Supra,
they try again about a decade later.
Back during ls400/ls430 times, the competition was gliding and their reliability sucked.
Now competition has largely caught up, so there are no "easy pickens"
03-07-18, 07:33 PM
#54
Your quote:
"The LS isn't going anywhere, the LS is Lexus, its essential to its identity."
They said the same thing about the Supra, Scion, etc,
I would bet it will be discontinued within 3 years.
This is business, not an identity. Toyota didn't get to be 2nd largest automaker by sticking w/ **** that won't sell
"The LS isn't going anywhere, the LS is Lexus, its essential to its identity."
They said the same thing about the Supra, Scion, etc,
I would bet it will be discontinued within 3 years.
This is business, not an identity. Toyota didn't get to be 2nd largest automaker by sticking w/ **** that won't sell
03-07-18, 08:10 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I will absolutely take that bet that the LS won’t be around in 3 years.
Toyota wasn’t launched with or because of the Supra, Lexus was launched with and because of the LS. They don’t build a low volume LC and then cancel the LS. Not gonna happen.
Toyota wasn’t launched with or because of the Supra, Lexus was launched with and because of the LS. They don’t build a low volume LC and then cancel the LS. Not gonna happen.
03-07-18, 08:23 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
Like I said, though, I hope I'm wrong. Nobody wants this car to be #1 more than me, trust me. But I just don't see it selling well.
Time will tell, though.
03-08-18, 05:33 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Tell that to the Q45. Nobody bought those and they axed them; that car was every bit as important to Infiniti as LS is to Lexus. If this new generation isn't a sales success I could see Lexus abandoning the LS, it's not a nice thought but yes.
Like I said, though, I hope I'm wrong. Nobody wants this car to be #1 more than me, trust me. But I just don't see it selling well.
Time will tell, though.
Like I said, though, I hope I'm wrong. Nobody wants this car to be #1 more than me, trust me. But I just don't see it selling well.
Time will tell, though.
The car will sell fine. Their sales goals for it are only 12k a year.
03-08-18, 09:50 AM
#58
Pole Position
Saw my first LS500 the other night at dinner. Black on black, couldn't see many interior details to tell how it was optioned and didn't want to be the guy leaning my face up against the window to look... As expected, the car looks way better in-person than in pictures to me. I really like the car from the side and especially the front (I personally like the grille and the head lights), I'm not as positive on the way the car looks from behind but that will likely grow on me. I was sitting outside at the restaurant and it was crazy how many people were looking at it and talking about it as they entered into the restaurant. Definitely caught every single person's interest as they walked past it. One pleasant surprise for me was the wheel design on this one - the pics I've seen didn't have attractive wheel designs but these were pretty nice (although I still wish they would offer some sort of 5-star type design).
I'm going to try and test drive one in the next few weeks to really get a feel for it. Cosmetically, it's a sharp looking car (for the most part) to my eyes.
I'm going to try and test drive one in the next few weeks to really get a feel for it. Cosmetically, it's a sharp looking car (for the most part) to my eyes.
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signdetres (03-08-18)
03-08-18, 10:26 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
I saw two LS500's at the dealership and can't say I was anymore impressed after seeing it in person, there is just something off about the design and it did not get any better seeing it in person. I peeked at the interior, nothing jumped out at me. I did not ask to sit in it since I was not a interested buyer though I am sure there is some quality improvements over the 4th Gen, I just did not see anything that is going to have me believe this is going to be much of a seller. Price was 105K I believe which is just shocking.
03-08-18, 11:40 AM
#60
Toyota Motor Corporation is not here to **** fart around.
TMC is here to sell and make money.
The only exception would be the limited production LFA, and maybe the LC coupe.
Even the LC coupe would be expected to sell in Mercedes SL roadster numbers if possible.
The 5LS sedan must sell and make some money.
Historically, the LS had 5 year model cycles, while the S Class had 12 year model cycles.
Nowadays, both pretty much use consistent 7 year model cycles.
As such, historically Mercedes would release a new S Class range and sell, and then a year or so later, Lexus would would debut the next generation of LS which would "clobber" the S Class for sales.
For example, the 1979-91 W126 S Class peaked at 35,689 in 1986, but then the 1990 1LS would thump the S Class with 42,806 sales USA by 1990.
The 1991-98 W140 bested 17,754 sales, while 1994-00 2LS punched back with 23,657 units.
The 1998-05 W220 peaked at 30,315 units in the year 2000, and the 2000-06 3LS would punch back peaking at 32,272 sales.
The 2005-13 W221 peaked at 30,886, and the 2002-12 4LS punched back with 35,226 units in its first full year in 2007.
Now, that the current model 2013-20 W222 has peaked at 25,276 units, let's see if the all new Lexus 5LS can uphold and punch back in true LS tradition?
Sales Goals
Sales goals is nonsense.
Sales goals are only there to save face.
They set a deliberately low goal to save embarrassment.
In truth, Toyota Motor Corporation is here to sell and make money, and the 5LS is no exception.
When people sense trouble, they become defensive, and bring up the topic of meeting low sales targets to justify.
People used to go on about 4GS sales goals [only to save face], and now dozens of posts discussing the axing of the GS line.
Cause?
The problem with the new 5LS may be sporty niche targeting young millennials.
Millenials mostly purchase Corolla and Camry - smaller vehicles at the lower end of the market.
As we go up in size and price, it becomes more distant from the reach of young millennials.
Thus, the sporty niche 2013-20 3IS fell slightly in peak sales from 2007's 54,933, to 2014's 51,358 - at a time when the 3 Series holding their sales and blasting 142,000+ units, and C Class blasting some 88,000+ units.
Because sporty niching is more appropriate for smaller and cheaper vehicles, the compact IS sales is only mildly affected.
However, not so for bigger brother 4GS.
From a peak of 2GS 31,884 and 3GS 33,457, GS sales fell for the sporty niche 4GS's by some 30% with only a best of 23,117 units.
This sporty niche 4GS remarkable fall in sales was at a time when E Class increased their peak sales from 59,000+ to 69,000+ units.
Why?
Because sporty niching young millennials is less appropriate for larger and more expensive vehicles - like the 4GS.
I am no God.
I have no crystal ball.
I don't know how well the public will respond to 5LS in one/two years.
However, I suspect sporty niching young millennials will have an even greater impact on the full size luxury US$100,000 5LS.
An US$100,000 full size luxury sedan is NOT your typical young millennial's sedan...
.
TMC is here to sell and make money.
The only exception would be the limited production LFA, and maybe the LC coupe.
Even the LC coupe would be expected to sell in Mercedes SL roadster numbers if possible.
The 5LS sedan must sell and make some money.
Historically, the LS had 5 year model cycles, while the S Class had 12 year model cycles.
Nowadays, both pretty much use consistent 7 year model cycles.
As such, historically Mercedes would release a new S Class range and sell, and then a year or so later, Lexus would would debut the next generation of LS which would "clobber" the S Class for sales.
For example, the 1979-91 W126 S Class peaked at 35,689 in 1986, but then the 1990 1LS would thump the S Class with 42,806 sales USA by 1990.
The 1991-98 W140 bested 17,754 sales, while 1994-00 2LS punched back with 23,657 units.
The 1998-05 W220 peaked at 30,315 units in the year 2000, and the 2000-06 3LS would punch back peaking at 32,272 sales.
The 2005-13 W221 peaked at 30,886, and the 2002-12 4LS punched back with 35,226 units in its first full year in 2007.
Now, that the current model 2013-20 W222 has peaked at 25,276 units, let's see if the all new Lexus 5LS can uphold and punch back in true LS tradition?
Sales Goals
Sales goals is nonsense.
Sales goals are only there to save face.
They set a deliberately low goal to save embarrassment.
In truth, Toyota Motor Corporation is here to sell and make money, and the 5LS is no exception.
When people sense trouble, they become defensive, and bring up the topic of meeting low sales targets to justify.
People used to go on about 4GS sales goals [only to save face], and now dozens of posts discussing the axing of the GS line.
Cause?
The problem with the new 5LS may be sporty niche targeting young millennials.
Millenials mostly purchase Corolla and Camry - smaller vehicles at the lower end of the market.
As we go up in size and price, it becomes more distant from the reach of young millennials.
Thus, the sporty niche 2013-20 3IS fell slightly in peak sales from 2007's 54,933, to 2014's 51,358 - at a time when the 3 Series holding their sales and blasting 142,000+ units, and C Class blasting some 88,000+ units.
Because sporty niching is more appropriate for smaller and cheaper vehicles, the compact IS sales is only mildly affected.
However, not so for bigger brother 4GS.
From a peak of 2GS 31,884 and 3GS 33,457, GS sales fell for the sporty niche 4GS's by some 30% with only a best of 23,117 units.
This sporty niche 4GS remarkable fall in sales was at a time when E Class increased their peak sales from 59,000+ to 69,000+ units.
Why?
Because sporty niching young millennials is less appropriate for larger and more expensive vehicles - like the 4GS.
I am no God.
I have no crystal ball.
I don't know how well the public will respond to 5LS in one/two years.
However, I suspect sporty niching young millennials will have an even greater impact on the full size luxury US$100,000 5LS.
An US$100,000 full size luxury sedan is NOT your typical young millennial's sedan...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 03-08-18 at 01:23 PM.
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neilsarkar (03-21-18)
