there's a lot of misconceptions (and outright snake oil) about 'dacs' and 'hi-res' and formats, etc.

question to those who say this "USB Audio Player Pro" makes a big difference - how is your android phone connected to the car?
bluetooth?
android auto?
analog (aux in)?
usb?
pfm (pure *********** magic)?
something else?

 

The biggest issue around this topic is the inability of most mobile devices (phones, tablets, etc.) to playback hi (or just "higher") res files. This assumes your music files are higher bit rate to begin with. If they aren't, and you're playing low quality files like .mp3, then no system is going to make them sound magically better.

Where external DACs and better music players help is when your source music is good quality, higher bit rate files. Most devices don't have in-built DACs capable of playing higer bit rate files at their encoded rates - they down sample to a lower rate (apparently, some LG phones do have DACs that can however). So, bypassing the device's own DAC and running through an external DAC or app (like UAPP) that can play those higher bit rate files will make them sound better.

For me, when I stopped using VLC and switched to UAPP the difference was immediately noticeable in all my cars. I'm not even using the eq either - I run in "bit perfect" mode. It doesn't matter whether the device is connected wirelessly or wired unless your device has limitations in that area. My files are mostly ripped CDs in a lossless format (m4p - formerly ALAC, but FLAC and other lossless formats are good). This isn't a " true" hi res file of course. Just a copy of the CD in its original sampling rate which is way better than .mp3. For true hi res audio files you need files encoded in DSD or MQA formats (UAPP supports MQA).

 

Say what you want. I was about to pull the trigger on a $2000 ZZ2 IT3-LEX19 system upgrade because my LC500 ML audio sounded like total ****e. Didn't matter the source or the connection. I purchased the $7.99 USB Audio player pro for my Motorola RAZR and connect via bluetooth and it is "BAR NONE" the best sounding audio I have ever heard coming out of any of speakers on any of my audio systems, Cars, computers, earbuds, golf bag JBL, even my full blown home audio system. It works for them all.

 

I stream Qobuz (similar to TIdal or other streaming services) and would like to know how seamless and trouble free this app works feeding our car audio systems ?

 

the world has moved beyond 'files' for one thing, with lossless streaming options out there.

but, but... if you send the audio via digital means (bluetooth or usb) the phone's DAC *isn't used*. however, bluetooth is always compressed i believe, so no lossless format is going to get transmitted that way, but apple carplay and android auto DON'T USE BLUETOOTH for audio they only use it to get the connection established. after that, it's a wifi network between phone and car, which can EASILY keep up with ANY bit rate music.

glad that's your impression.

yes it does, see above.

what do you mean by 'true'? MQA is still compressed by the way. i had to look up DSD but that's a very high quality archival format and the files are apparently very large.

apparently that's just an android auto / apple carplay interface, so how would that sound better?

that's great for ya! for $8, maybe i'll give it a try. oh wait, doesn't work with apple iphones.

 

Compression and lossless are being used interchanged here they are not the same thing there is file compression (like FLAC) and perceptual compression like mp3. Bluetooth streaming has more than enough bandwidth for high quality audio look up A2DP 1.2. Again, "lossless" keeps getting tossed around without context, there is no such thing as lossless once audio is recorded (doesn't matter the format) much information has already been lost it is not possible to capture the entire audio envelop.

This is easy to demonstrate go listen to a live orchestra then a recording of the same performance, you can have insane sample rate and still will never capture and reproduce what you heard live.

 

^^ great post, especially last part about orchestra which of course is recorded with imperfect microphones.

 

Quote: LeX2K
"People equate specs to good sound doubt that is every going to change. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the specs are how many speakers there are and how many watts it's how it all sounds."

Thanks for the input bud.

 

Okay .... I am obviously not up to speed on how to obtain the best quality audio in my LC but I am very interested in making any improvements that I can. If I am currently stuck with an Iphone and streaming my music what is my best option?

 

UAPP supports Tidal natively within the app. Like just another source. Should work well. Don't know aboutbQobuz but UAPP supports "other" sources. Give the trial version a try.

 

Tidal is one of the best known as out there (there are others) that play hi res music. I believe they stream FLAC files and you can choose from 3 different sampling qualities with MAX being the highest. MAX will give you DVD audio quality (anyone remember that? my acura used to support it and it sounded amazing) which is good enough for most and way better than .mp3 quality. Of course, the higher the quality the more data you use and the more it costs. Tidal is available for iOS and has a free trial. Now, I'm not tapped into the iOS world so I dont know if an iPhone's internal DAC supports higerr bit rate playback but give it a try and tell us how it worked out!

And, for all the comments out there about compression, lossless, DACs., etc. almost all the music you're going to find will be CD quality at best. Either because you ripped a CD to a lossless file format like FLAC or because the streaming service gives you "hi res" files which are CD quality (44.1 kHz/16 bit). Some services now offer DVD audio quality now (192 kHz/24-bit) BUT, your phone might not support that level and will downsample during playback. Only way to know is to look up the specs of your phone. Better yet, drop in on someone's forum where they have all the answers already.

(sorry for the wall of words but it's obviously an important subject)

 

so all this talk of higher bit rates, and dacs and this usb player pro app... how are fans of the app connecting their phones to the car?

if by bluetooth you're subject to the limitations of bluetooth "re-encoding".

if by analog headphone out (i don't even know if there's an analog line in / aux type input on the car!) you're subject to the limitations of the 50 cent dac in the phone and the analog input is likely re-digitized inside the car's head unit anyway.

if by usb connection OR android auto, then MAYBE the higher bit rate makes it to the car's dac, however, i don't see how the app makes any difference in that case if the digital bits are sent out the usb either way.

 

What are the sample rates? FLAC is a compression format designed for audio it does not in any way tell what the actual bit rate and sample rate is.
This application claims to be capable of "bypassing all audio limits of Android" when using a USB audio DAC. Maybe this is true but I can say with certainty that for Bluetooth streaming it has no advantage over Poweramp (my favourite) it sounds exactly the same.

Saying the DAC in your phone is important for Bluetooth streaming is like saying the DAC in your CD player matters even when you're using coaxial or optical output. But it is a bit more complicated because the DAC in your phone is actually a purpose built chip that does more than just digital to analog it does basically everything audio. Which means it might have limitations but probably not, the data rate it can output is more than adequate.

 

I use both wired and Bluetooth depending on the battery life of my phone. It doesn't change the sound quality. Using Bluetooth "might" cause issues with interference but not the sound quality. While Bluetooth does compress data for transmission it does NOT alter the source file. So, if you connect wirelessly or wired the sound quality doesn't change because the data itself doesn't change. The only limitation of Bluetooth is bandwidth and potential interference. Bluetooth was originally devised to create a PAN (Personal Area Network) for short range devices like a mouse and keyboard. Newer iterations of the standard have increase range, bandwidth and overall performance making it suitable for file transfer including music files.

Unless you use a music player app with the ability to bypass the internal DAC like UAPP does. Even using analog out to headphones (not in the car of course, but using wired headphones for example) the quality is improved. Honestly, instead of debating this just get the free trial and see for yourself.

If you have an Android phone, try it. Or, read up on how they do it. USB Audio Player PRO

 

FLAC supports numerous compression rates depending on the source file and user preferences. So, up to user preference but most FLAC files seem to be in the CD sampling range of 44.1 kHz/16 bit probably because FLAC was first used to copy over CD's into files to be used on portable music players (iPods, phone, Zune, etc.). Higher bit rates can be chosen.

I've used Poweramp - its a good app much like VLC, Neutron, and others. Probably the best user interface and more EQ control than even UAPP. I wanted to bypass the internal DAC to avoid downsampling (which all phones do) and Poweramp doesn't have that ability as of today. However, more and more phones are coming equipped with internal DACs that support higher bit rates so I would say that, one day, the primary advantage UAPP has over other players will go away.

As I said in the previous post, using wired or Bluetooth connectivity does NOT affect the music quality. "Music quality" being defined as the bit rates, amount of data, etc. FLAC, and other compression algorithms, are file formats. Bluetooth is a transmission protocol. If Bluetooth somehow affected the actual file in some way then all data sent over Bluetooth would cause alterations in the source file - which it doesn't do. The only "limitations" of Bluetooth are bandwidth, potential interference, and, of course, range. None of which tend to be big issues when streaming music in a car.

Ok, I've said plenty on this and am taking a break. For those with comments still, just download the app and give it a try. Depending on your phone and music files, you may or may not like the result. But it's a free trial so why debate when you can see for yourself?