General Car Conversation
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,212
Likes: 460
From: Long Island
I am also not a fan of engine start/stop. I rented a vehicle two years ago in Germany and it was an awful Citroen crossover. There was nothing to like about it, but start/stop was something I had to disable every time I got in the pos to go anywhere. The Hyundai Kona I rented in Germany in September was a much better vehicle, but the seats were uncomfortable. I also do not like crossovers at all. They handle poorly which is not ideal on the Autobahn especially in sections where there is no speed limit. You have to plan ahead when passing because the poor handling is immediately noticeable. At least it didn’t have start/stop.
the mercedes 48V system with ISG on the 450 models is probably the best implementation of the stop/start i've encountered, but despite that ISG being able to output like 20 hp and 180 ft lbs on its own, the car won't let you (or just can't) get started on the EV power only... so you still have to rely on the software telling the ISG to start the engine up again in time before you need to use the gas pedal
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,382
Likes: 357
From: ON/NY
a lot of cars don't actually seem to be designed around the stop/start which (to me) is a big part of why people tend to get annoyed by them... the prius for instance has had a "stop/start" for its entire existence but it never becomes a problem since you don't need the engine to be running for that initial 0-5 mph
the mercedes 48V system with ISG on the 450 models is probably the best implementation of the stop/start i've encountered, but despite that ISG being able to output like 20 hp and 180 ft lbs on its own, the car won't let you (or just can't) get started on the EV power only... so you still have to rely on the software telling the ISG to start the engine up again in time before you need to use the gas pedal
the mercedes 48V system with ISG on the 450 models is probably the best implementation of the stop/start i've encountered, but despite that ISG being able to output like 20 hp and 180 ft lbs on its own, the car won't let you (or just can't) get started on the EV power only... so you still have to rely on the software telling the ISG to start the engine up again in time before you need to use the gas pedal
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Dec 27, 2023 at 08:27 AM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,196
Likes: 1,582
From: FL
I think what a lot of members take issue with is that the savings of including stat stop when it comes to fuel economy just out weigh the hassle of dealing with it on day to day basis. Then there is a long term repair concerns or reliability costs. When it comes to expensive cars, is start stop really gonna change one’s life for fuel expenses ? I can’t imagine how my 4.7 would be ruined with such a feature. When it comes to the Prius, I get why it was implemented.
It was made by Club Car.
I don't like stop and start even on a golf cart. Lol
Lead Lap
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 409
On start/stop your AC isn’t cold when the car is turned off. I imagine the heat wouldn’t be as warm. I would think this would also put added wear on the starter as well. At least with hybrid, the AC blows cold when the engine shuts off. Plus it doesn’t have a starter so no concern there.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
On start/stop your AC isn’t cold when the car is turned off. I imagine the heat wouldn’t be as warm. I would think this would also put added wear on the starter as well. At least with hybrid, the AC blows cold when the engine shuts off. Plus it doesn’t have a starter so no concern there.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
On start/stop your AC isn’t cold when the car is turned off. I imagine the heat wouldn’t be as warm. I would think this would also put added wear on the starter as well. At least with hybrid, the AC blows cold when the engine shuts off. Plus it doesn’t have a starter so no concern there.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,580
Likes: 87
From: CA, Mid OC
The Citroen with start/stop would rumble back to life. What was most irritating is having the engine shut off when you stop only momentarily to sort out where to go. It was most annoying in Nürnberg where both rental cars had nav systems that would send us the wrong way down one way streets or in two cases, into and through pedestrian zones where only delivery vehicles and Polizei are allowed to drive in/out. I paused to sort out the legal way to drive to my hotel. If I hadn’t disabled start/stop, it would have been a lot of cycles.
I had a coworker years ago with a 5 series and start/stop would have required the driver to disable it via on board electronics. My brother had a Panamera for a while and it also did not “remember” that he disabled it. You have to disable it every time you drive the car from a new start up if that makes sense. The fuel savings in the Panamera were probably not worth the development work on the “feature.” Bigger issue with the Panamera was that it was very oil thirsty. Porsche said it was normal/expected.
I had a coworker years ago with a 5 series and start/stop would have required the driver to disable it via on board electronics. My brother had a Panamera for a while and it also did not “remember” that he disabled it. You have to disable it every time you drive the car from a new start up if that makes sense. The fuel savings in the Panamera were probably not worth the development work on the “feature.” Bigger issue with the Panamera was that it was very oil thirsty. Porsche said it was normal/expected.
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,019
Likes: 496
From: Knoxville, TN
Will the new 3.4tt hold up like this? I really doubt it.
Like I said, 130k on my old 5.7 worries me about as much as a cloudy day. I'd be anxious with the new motor.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
48v systems are more complex, the failures are also more expensive to repair. Lack of starter is great until the combined starter/generator disk dies and costs a trans pull and $1000 unit. I've done two now
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
I expect to see more in the coming years as is typical of systems like this, doesn't bother me at all since it's very good pay!
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,019
Likes: 496
From: Knoxville, TN
I said I liked the Ecoboost and I'd love to drive one again, I don't hate it at all. But I wouldn't buy one with 100k on it, or any turbo engine.
Long term reliability though this new stuff versus the old indestructible V8? Ehhhh...
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
The Mercedes ones, warranty doesn't last long for people who drive a lot. 48k miles here is not much, I also know 4 people with 48v Audis who are nearly out of warranty already, two have had the control module issue as well leading to a month of wait on parts.
I expect to see more in the coming years as is typical of systems like this, doesn't bother me at all since it's very good pay!
I expect to see more in the coming years as is typical of systems like this, doesn't bother me at all since it's very good pay!
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,382
Likes: 357
From: ON/NY
I don’t exactly look at it like that. Sure, there is an absence of a starter, alternator and belts, so it might appear less complex…but replacing a starter, alternator and belts is a pretty straightforward task. I just don’t see a 48V repair as being as simple. Tundra/Sequoia hybrid still has a starter as well as the integrated starter too,(I know they are not mild)