General Car Conversation
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,543
Likes: 264
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
That's why I said, in my last post, all else equal. But, aside from that, it is an accepted design-fact in the auto industry that RWD is usually not as spec-efficient inside as FWD. RWD requires a transmission tunnel in the floor of the rear seat, a longitudinal-mount engine/transmission that sticks back further forward the cabin than a transverse FWD layout, and, often a windshield somewhat further back.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
and a big reason it was so expensive in the first place was the LS 400! when that first came out in 1989 mercedes was basically caught with its pants down and had to rush to add extra features, ultimately resulting in delays and budget overruns
unfortunately i think the W220 suffered as a result of them trying to "undo" their financial setbacks and excess of the W140... eventually the W220 got better and was the first platform to get the V8 Kompressor and V12 Biturbo engines as well as ABC suspension (so for that i appreciate it lol) but it was never quite the tank its predecessor was
unfortunately i think the W220 suffered as a result of them trying to "undo" their financial setbacks and excess of the W140... eventually the W220 got better and was the first platform to get the V8 Kompressor and V12 Biturbo engines as well as ABC suspension (so for that i appreciate it lol) but it was never quite the tank its predecessor was
I really wish the W140 and C140 didn't have their roofline heightened during the design process. Bruno Sacco's original design looked much better and is a huge reason the W140/C140 look just a tad goofy to me these days.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
That's why I said, in my last post, all else equal. But, aside from that, it is an accepted design-fact in the auto industry that RWD is usually not as spec-efficient inside as FWD. RWD requires a transmission tunnel in the floor of the rear seat, a longitudinal-mount engine/transmission that sticks back further forward the cabin than a transverse FWD layout, and, often a windshield somewhat further back.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,405
Likes: 366
From: Las Vegas
https://slate.com/business/2023/11/b...d-villani.html
This slate writer has no idea how transmissions work and he's determined to make it our problem.
What a weird way to tell the world you had a humiliation kink.
This slate writer has no idea how transmissions work and he's determined to make it our problem.
Why would an automaker manufacture a car with so much engine power that it requires an eight-speed transmission?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,405
Likes: 366
From: Las Vegas
That's why I said, in my last post, all else equal. But, aside from that, it is an accepted design-fact in the auto industry that RWD is usually not as spec-efficient inside as FWD. RWD requires a transmission tunnel in the floor of the rear seat, a longitudinal-mount engine/transmission that sticks back further forward the cabin than a transverse FWD layout, and, often a windshield somewhat further back.
If i need more room for rear passengers, I just take my truck which doesn't have a driveline tunnel at all in the back seat area. 3 adults can ride comfortably back there.
In my auto history, I've only owned one FWD vehicle. I'm not eager to buy another one.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 622
From: IL
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 494
From: Long Island
also i was with you on no FWD cars for me, until i rented that renault clio in le mans! in a small, lightweight, manual hatchback it makes sense... that car wasn't particularly powerful (150hp or so) but it also only weighed about 2,400 lbs so it felt "zippy" and nimble and very appropriate for getting around a small town
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,543
Likes: 264
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
That's a trade-off most of us on this forum are willing to make for a car that's more engaging to drive.
If i need more room for rear passengers, I just take my truck which doesn't have a driveline tunnel at all in the back seat area. 3 adults can ride comfortably back there.
In my auto history, I've only owned one FWD vehicle. I'm not eager to buy another one.
If i need more room for rear passengers, I just take my truck which doesn't have a driveline tunnel at all in the back seat area. 3 adults can ride comfortably back there.
In my auto history, I've only owned one FWD vehicle. I'm not eager to buy another one.
Oh, I'm not questioning that. I respect your views, and your wishes....and it's your money to spend as you wish. But, yes, there are some tradeoffs.
Myself.....I gave up on RWD many years ago, mostly because of winter traction. Snow tires and electronic traction-aids for RWD help, but there is still nothing like having the weight of the engine/transmsison over the drive-wheels.
Last edited by mmarshall; Nov 29, 2023 at 02:54 PM.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
Oh, I'm not questioning that. I respect your views, and your wishes....and it's your money to spend as you wish. But, yes, there are some tradeoffs.
Myself.....I gave up on RWD many years ago, mostly because of winter traction. Snow tires and electronic traction-aids for RWD help, but there is still nothing like having the weight of the engine/transmsison over the drive-wheels.
Myself.....I gave up on RWD many years ago, mostly because of winter traction. Snow tires and electronic traction-aids for RWD help, but there is still nothing like having the weight of the engine/transmsison over the drive-wheels.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,589
Likes: 95
From: CA, Mid OC
I must say I love this. As an American writing for international audiences, I have to balance the rules and the English treat punctuation around quotation marks differently, so I try not to ever use quotation marks which are usually not necessary anyway. I do say lorry, lift, block of flats, motorway, and queue frequently and I do occasionally refer to people as you lot. Once I even told a guy to sod off. But, cars though, so how about the Mercury Merkur XR4ti?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,214
Likes: 535
From: Knoxville, TN
I don't care for FWD either but it has massive weight over the wheels which gives it an advantage from the get go.
LS430 is a nightmare even in the rain the rear is so light.... But I wouldn't trade it for FWD, hell no.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
Modern skid and traction control make a huge difference, the difference between my RWD LS460L and my RWD LS430 and LS400 in the snow was astonishing.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,543
Likes: 264
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
AWD, of course, is probably the best way to go in the winter....that's one reason why Subarus have become so hugely popular, although, of course, the last couple of winters here in the D.C. area have been been very mild, with almost no snow.
RWD on winter tires is 100% superior.
Maybe for some people...not for the majority of drivers.