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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 05:14 AM
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Worries about underpowered 4 cylinder system seem to be valid, but reviewers (largely who don't live with Minivans day to day) seem to think that the potential fuel economy gains outweigh it.

As you might expect, the Sienna's performance is perfectly adequate but hardly thrilling. It feels a bit tepid around town, exactly where you'd expect a hybrid with immediate torque provided by electric motors to shine. Paradoxically, this van seems punchier out on the open road, accelerating more vigorously. Still, a little extra giddy-up would be appreciated, especially if you're hauling a full load or towing anywhere near this van's 3,500-pound limit. When working hard, the Sienna's fuel-sipping drivetrain also sounds a bit distressed, louder and more grumbly than I recall the Toyota Highlander Hybrid being, which has basically the same powertrain. Minor gripes aside, it's hard to argue with the economy this family-hauler provides.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/review...ienna-preview/
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 06:19 AM
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Lets hope the rumored 2.4L turbo 4 will be ready by next yr as an option.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 07:29 AM
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All of that black plastic is so tragically Toyota. After a few years all that trim will be faded and chalky and these will look like garbage on the road.

I agree with his issues. The rear seats not folding flush is a big deal, we keep our third row stowed 99% of the time, and the van is always got stuff in the back, and having those seats sticking up is a constant source of irritation. The Sedona's third row was exactly the same way. Pacifica and Odyssey are much better. I kid you not, thats one of the reasons we traded the Sedona.

As for the spare tire, my Pacifica is the same way. No spare, inflator and fix a flat.

A lot of the older Sienna was also poorly thought out. For whatever reason Chrysler and Honda just seem to have better engineers when it comes to laying out a vehicle for family use. There are lots of things that as an experienced Minivan owner bugged me in the old Sienna and bug me about this Sienna. When I look at an Odyssey though....perfection. Pacifica...perfection. Lots of "why did they do that?" in the Sienna and Sedona. When you look at how long Toyota has been making the Sienna vs how long Kia has been making the Sedona thats really inexcusable for Toyota.

Originally Posted by mmarshall
My Ex-Flight-Instructor had long-term experience with two recent Siennas (one a company vehicle, and the other his daily driver), and from what he told me, was not impressed with either. Both had warranty issues with things like sunroof and defective camshafts in the engine, and Toyota apparently did not handle the warranty-claims very well.
That is not a typical experience. If you look at the stats, the Sienna is the most reliable minivan. The engine is the tried and true Toyota 3.5L and camshaft or other issues are basically unheard of in that engine.

I will say that as I experience other carmakers and owning them, Toyota/Lexus does not handle warranty claims well. Chrysler for all its warts is much better at standing behind their product, and they have to stand behind it a lot more obviously but I never experienced ANY push back on any issue I had with my Jeeps or my Pacifica (and there were a lot) whereas I have always had to fight hard to get Toyota to cover things.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 07:38 AM
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I test drove a sienna after I had my first kid, about 12 years ago, seemed like a logical step. we had an Rx and ISF/LS at home and the sienna drove lets say not that great. It felt like a huge box with a lot of wind noise and Handling was terrible. Fast forward 12 years and on the way back from a canoe trip I drove my friends Sienna back home from the mountains. He was tired and wanted to catch a nap. anyways this was a xle or limited I can't remember and I was surprised how well it drove not as noisy and even the power was plenty. Plus we had a crap load of stuff including 18 ft canoe and kid and mine kids in the van.
I am not sure either I got old or the sienna improved a lot but I would seriously consider buying one now.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 07:40 AM
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They have improved a lot. You should try newer vans like the Pacifica and Odyssey, they drive even better than the outgoing Sienna.

My Pacifica rides and drives really nicely (better than my 2017 did), its reasonably quiet, good power. I still don't care for the looks or seating position of a minivan but they are just as nice to drive as a crossover.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
For whatever reason Chrysler and Honda just seem to have better engineers when it comes to laying out a vehicle for family use
Well, Chrysler engineers, in an ultimate sense, had more of a head start.....competitors were not able to market FWD minivans for at least several years after the first Dodge/Plymouth minivans appeared in 1984. But, IMO, that is becoming less and less of an excuse today, as we are now talking the better part of four decades ago, and a few years' head-start should no longer be much of a factor. Toyota also (arguably) has more money to spend on vehicle-design than any other company in the world, and should be able to attract and pay good competent engineers. I say (arguably) because Tesla obviously rules the world of BEV design.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
They have improved a lot. You should try newer vans like the Pacifica and Odyssey, they drive even better than the outgoing Sienna.

My Pacifica rides and drives really nicely (better than my 2017 did), its reasonably quiet, good power. I still don't care for the looks or seating position of a minivan but they are just as nice to drive as a crossover.

There are exceptions, but, in general, minivans ride better than crossovers, due to the long wheelbases and reasonably high tire-profiles. But that line is rapidly blurring. I can think of some very comfortable crossovers, such as the Kia Sorento, which, IMO, is actually more comfortable-riding than (comparable) Tellurides, despite the latter's extreme popularity.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
They have improved a lot. You should try newer vans like the Pacifica and Odyssey, they drive even better than the outgoing Sienna.

My Pacifica rides and drives really nicely (better than my 2017 did), its reasonably quiet, good power. I still don't care for the looks or seating position of a minivan but they are just as nice to drive as a crossover.
One of the company cars at a job I had a long time ago was a 2007 Grand Caravan with the towing package upgrades. As much as I disliked the drivetrain, I did enjoy the ride quality and handling.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
There are exceptions, but, in general, minivans ride better than crossovers, due to the long wheelbases and reasonably high tire-profiles. But that line is rapidly blurring. I can think of some very comfortable crossovers, such as the Kia Sorento, which, IMO, is actually more comfortable-riding than (comparable) Tellurides, despite the latter's extreme popularity.
I completely disagree. I still think crossovers have the edge because their design typically allows for more sophisticated rear suspension setups. As for high tire profiles, My Pacifica has 20" wheels, a loaded Odyssey has 19" wheels with the same profile tires as the 20s on my Pacifica.

Lower trim crossovers have higher profile tires just like lower trim minivans. Overall, I prefer the way Crossovers drive because I like their seating position more, and I like the feel of them more, but minivans today are very nice.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 09:07 AM
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Car and Driver's review:

Tested: 2021 Toyota Sienna Sheds Minivan Stereotypes

Toyota's designers try to up the Sienna's coolness while engineers massively boost fuel economy.




The new 2021 Toyota Sienna appears to want to undo the stigma that minivans have suffered for decades. To trick the eye into thinking the Sienna is an SUV, the hood has been raised and the base of the A-pillar is pulled back. The sheetmetal around the rear wheels bulges and connects to a bone line that runs along the side of the van. An aggressive-looking minivan might not be something anyone asked for, but we'll take it.

Bolder on the Outside, (Mostly) Better on the Inside

The sliding doors still announce that it's your turn to carpool, but the Sienna's new interior is far more modern and driver-focused than its predecessor's dated design. A bridgelike floating center console flows out of the dashboard and leaves a large and practical storage area below. Four of the Sienna's 18 cupholders are housed atop the console, and we like that Toyota kept a real shifter rather than adopting the fashionable and unnatural rotary-**** and push-button setups found on the Chrysler Pacifica and Honda Odyssey.




HIGHS: An aggressive-looking minivan, improved refinement and road manners, stellar fuel-economy figures.

Behind the front seats, the new Sienna stops pretending it's not a minivan. There's comfortable seating for seven—or eight with the stowing center seat—and legroom has increased in the second and third rows. The second-row captain's chairs that recline and look like they're out of a dentist's office slide back and forth more than before and provide limo-like accommodations. Those chairs don't come out nor do they fold into floor, which limits how much you can pack into the Sienna. The last-generation Sienna had removable seats and a massive 150 cubic feet with the third row stowed and the second row removed, far more than the new Sienna's 101 cubic feet. Cargo volume behind the second and third rows is down by 12 and five cubes, respectively. Toyota has decreased the effort needed to fold and unfold the third row into the floor, and we can confirm that the operation is nearly effortless.

More Refined on the Road, More Efficient at the Gas Pump

Following the built-in vacuum trend, there's a built-in vacuum, and like the original Toyota Van from 1984, there's a small refrigerator in the center console. The Sienna is the only minivan with foot-activated power sliding doors. Kick under the door, and the door slides open. A full roster of driver-assistance technology is standard, including adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping assist.




LOWS: Hybrid powertrain sacrifices acceleration to fuel economy, second-row captain's chairs cannot be removed, some brake fade.


The Sienna has moved to Toyota's TNGA-K platform, an architecture that also underpins the Highlander and RAV4. More solid than before and with a 1.2-inch longer wheelbase, the Sienna also gets a new multilink rear suspension that replaces a less sophisticated twist-beam axle. Handling is more secure, and the steering is quicker and more precise.

At the track, our all-wheel-drive Sienna Platinum posted an identical 0.79 g on the skidpad as a 2019 Sienna AWD we tested. The new one's stopping distance from 70 mph also grew by five to 188 feet versus its predecessor, and we noticed moderate brake fade. Still, minivan shoppers will likely care more about the Sienna's newfound refinement than its at-the-limit handling.

Customers are also likely to care a lot about the Sienna's fuel economy, which is why the Sienna is now exclusively a hybrid. In place of the old 296-hp 3.5-liter V-6 is a 2.5-liter inline-four that couples with two electric motors to make 245 horsepower. Nearly a second slower to 60 mph than the V-6 (7.7 seconds versus 6.8), the hybrid system delivers strong-feeling acceleration from low rpm. The hybrid's fuel economy is considerably better than its predecessor's 19 mpg city, 27 highway, and 22 combined. The front-wheel-drive hybrid is EPA rated at up to 36 mpg in all three metrics, which is also considerably higher than its V-6-powered rivals. The all-wheel-drive model loses a single mile per gallon in the city and combined ratings. In our hands, we averaged 29 mpg.




The Sienna still tows up to 3500 pounds, and all-wheel drive remains an option, but instead of a driveshaft, there's an electric motor powering the rear axle. The Sienna's 1.9-kWh nickel-metal-hydride battery is packaged under the front seats to avoid compromising cargo space. When sufficiently charged and put in EV mode, the battery allows for pure electric driving for short distances and low speeds.

Final Word

Toyota has slightly rejiggered the Sienna's model lineup, which now starts with the base LE and moves up to the XLE, XSE, Limited, and the top-spec Platinum. Base prices remain relatively close to the outgoing versions and range from $35,635 for the LE up to $51,635 for an all-wheel-drive Platinum like our test car. Although the new Sienna might not change the public's perception about minivans as much as Toyota's marketing department hopes, it has the style and substance to challenge the refreshed Chrysler Pacifica, the facelifted Honda Odyssey, and the upcoming Kia Sedona.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 09:16 AM
  #26  
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And here's Motor Trend's:

2021 Toyota Sienna First Test—Making Minivans Cool Again

Look past the wild styling and see the new Sienna is evolving, with fancy features.




Growing up in a family of six, minivans were always around. They were aptly used for our long road trips, day trips to the beach, and—of course—soccer practice. Our "mamavans," as my mom dubbed them, were usually bare bones, lacking any kind of entertainment or tech features. They were versatile, comfortable, and spacious, but during our summer road trips from Houston to Mexico City we—the children—were left with nothing but our iPod Mini. (Our 2003 Honda Odyssey came with a VHS player, but once the lease was up, we never saw a rear-seat entertainment system again.) The 2021 Toyota Sienna is trying to change the way parents think of minivans, and with its wild styling, dozens of innovative comfort features, and hybrid-only powertrain, the new Sienna is getting lots of attention.Although the Sienna has been a staple in the segment, its longevity set it apart from modern minivans—Kia, Honda, and Chrysler have updated their minivans in the past few years, but the Sienna got its last major redesign for the 2011 model year. For this new model, Toyota designers and engineers took their time in creating a thoughtful cabin for parents with comfortable features for children.

We spent a few days driving the 2021 Toyota Sienna in two of its forms—the base LE and the top-trim Platinum. Did Toyota bring its A-game?


Styling

As cool and innovative as its features may be, the Sienna's exterior design is what really stands out. Whether you like it or hate it, it's clear Toyota designers wanted to make an impression. Designed in Toyota's CALTY studio in Newport Beach, California, the 2021 Sienna's front end was inspired by Japan's Shinkansen bullet train, but its big grille and strong lines on the fascia make its appearance polarizing. The profile's fluid lines give the Sienna a robust look, especially with its muscular wheelwell flares and optional 20-inch wheels. The rear gets a different perspective, as its sporty taillights remind us of the Supra.
For those who want something different, the new XSE trim swaps the traditional grille for a honeycomb design, while adding dark 20-inch wheels and mirror caps and unique front and rear bumpers.

The Adult Space

Inside is where the magic happens. Whether you opt for the LE or Platinum, the 2021 Sienna's cabin is airy and spacious. Enter the front row, and you'll be surprised by the long and expansive tray that extends from the front passenger's dashboard all the way to the driver, making it a perfect place to lay your phone, wallet, or keys. A wireless charger is smartly placed on the center of the tray, along with one of the seven standard USB ports in the cabin, making it easy to reach for either the driver or the front passenger.




The center console is innovative and functional. The bridge-like design allows occupants to place large items like a purse under the center console, with easy access from either side. That's in addition to the deep storage compartment located between the driver and front passenger, which could store a couple of iPads. Interior designers paid close attention to the Sienna's layout and packaging, as the top part of the bridge console has four of the van's 16 cupholders. The cupholder closest to the dashboard was designed to place your smartphone in an upright position that's visible from the driver's seat. It's details like these that really stand out in the Sienna's cabin.

As nice as the front cabin is, the biggest downside is the infotainment system. Although Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, and Amazon Alexa are standard along with the 9.0-inch screen, the system itself is slow to respond and outdated. The navigation graphics look like they are from the days when Justin Bieber was a YouTube sensation, and the rest of the system, though it performs well, doesn't feel contemporary.

The Children Space

The magic doesn't stop in the front row. Limited and Platinum trims come standard with second-row captain's chairs that slide back up to 25 inches and have a built-in ottoman to replicate the experience of a first-class airplane cabin. These seats, along with the built-in fridge, vacuum, and available Wi-Fi, are the some of the features I—and my parents—wished we had back in the day. Yours truly, at 6-foot-1, was perfectly comfortable in these fancy seats with the seatback all the way back and the ottoman up; my feet never touched the driver's seatback when it was adjusted to my driving position. The super-long-slide seats, as Toyota officially calls them, are great for children and parents, but the drawback is that you'll need both hands to slide them fore or aft when entering the third row. Those models that don't get the fancy seats (like the LE) get a second row that can slide back 10 inches, which is still nice for more legroom.




Access to the third row can be a bit complicated if you get the cooler/freezer, which diminishes the space to walk between the captains' chairs. But slide the seats up, and there's plenty of space to enter between the seats and the door frame. Once you're back there, the seating position is quite comfortable, with enough legroom and headroom for tall adults. The biggest flaw, however, are the small side windows, which make the ride claustrophobic. Those who don't mind it can be entertained thanks in part to a pair of USB charging ports located on the third row.

Also missing is any kind of child-focused technology. Unlike the updated Pacifica or Odyssey, which offer bird's-eye view cameras to see the children from the infotainment screen, the Sienna doesn't offer such a feature. Driver Easy Speak, which amplifies the driver's voice through the speakers, carries over from the current minivan. Toyota says we might see something similar to Honda's CabinWatch in the upcoming years.

Versatility

The 2021 Sienna's third row is now easier to stow thanks to its 50 percent weight reduction. Although there's no push button to do the job, it's an easy task that can be done with one hand by pulling a couple of straps. The deep cargo area can store at least three large suitcases with the seats up, and a side storage compartment can securely stow the second row's middle seat or the optional spare wheel.




In contrast with the Odyssey or Pacifica, the 2021 Toyota Sienna's second-row seats are not removable. Toyota engineers packed the side airbags on the seats, causing the second row to stay engaged at all times. A 4x8 plywood sheet should still fit inside for those trips to Home Depot.

Driving

In a dramatic change from last year, the 2021 Sienna is hybrid only. A 2.5-liter I-4 engine works with two electric motors to deliver 245 hp combined. An electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission is in charge of sending the power to the front or all four wheels via the optional all-wheel-drive system. With this combination, the Sienna is the only minivan in the U.S. to bring together AWD and a hybrid powertrain. (The 2021 Pacifica offers AWD, but not on the plug-in hybrid.)

The hybrid powertrain works well overall, but there's always a thrashy engine note when rolling from a full stop or when merging or passing on the freeway. Under half throttle the engine sounds stressed until you reach cruising speed, at which point things calm down in the cabin. The transmission and the engine work well together, but the engine feels like it's always working hard. During our battery of tests, the Sienna went from 0 to 60 mph in 7.9 seconds and completed the quarter mile in 16.1 seconds at 88.3 mph. Braking feels natural on the street or the track, where the Sienna stopped from 60 to 0 mph in 131 feet. In comparison, the last Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid we tested—a 2017 model—went from 0 to 60 mph in 7.4 seconds and completed the quarter mile in 15.8 seconds at 91 mph. It needed just 123 feet to stop.

We had mixed experiences with the Sienna's ride quality—the Platinum model we drove felt harsher on the pavement, while the LE's ride was a bit more composed. Both were pre-production models, and we hope to spend time in a production model soon to see how it behaves on the road. The steering, although a bit light for our liking, still delivered good feedback.




There are four driving modes—Normal, Eco, and Sport change the throttle response and transmission mapping depending on which one is selected. EV mode tries to get the most juice out of the battery, but it only works for a few seconds at a time. For a sportier experience, we're told the XSE has sharper steering, spring rates, and shock absorbers, which help deliver higher body roll resistance on corners.

With 36 mpg city/highway/combined, the 2021 Sienna front-drive is quite efficient (AWD models get 35/36/35 mpg). During the few days we drove the LE model we achieved an average of 40 mpg per the minivan's computer. But perhaps what's more impressive is its range, which can get the Sienna as far as 500 miles on a single tank of gas depending on the driving conditions.

Value

With a starting price of $35,635, the 2021 Sienna is the least expensive hybrid minivan on the market. All-wheel drive is $2,000 extra on the LE and XLE trims but gradually starts to get cheaper as you climb the ladder, with the Platinum AWD maxing out at $51,635. In contrast, the 2020 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid, which is the only other hybrid in the segment, starts at $41,490. Compared to the refreshed 2021 Honda Odyssey, the Sienna is about $2,500 more expensive, and those numbers stay about the same as you start climbing trim levels.




There's a handful of options that can be added to the Sienna, including a rear-seat entertainment package with a 11.6-inch screen that comes with an HDMI port, casting compatibility, a remote, and two pair of wireless headphones. The package is available on XLE and above for $1,415, but at that price it might be better to buy a couple of iPad minis, which start at $400. A nice option is the 1,500-watt inverter, which is available for $300 in all grades except LE; it adds a couple of 110-volt outlets for tailgating or camping trips.

Safety

Every 2021 Toyota Sienna comes standard with Toyota Safety Sense 2.0, which adds full-speed radar cruise control, lane tracing assist, a pre-collision warning and emergency braking system with pedestrian and cyclist detection, lane departure alert, automatic high-beams, and road sign assist. Ten airbags and a blind-spot monitor with rear cross-traffic alert are also standard.

Should I Buy It?

Toyota took its time to deliver a new Sienna, but the designers and engineers did an excellent job equipping the new cabin with smart and thoughtful features. Although the exterior might be polarizing, the Sienna has a lot to offer, including its great fuel economy, interior space, and, of course, the fancy captain's chairs with built-in ottomans.

The 2021 Toyota Sienna might be getting its mojo back in a dying segment, but the strong competition from the redesigned Odyssey and Pacifica, not to mention the upcoming Kia Sedona, means families (still) have options to choose from.

The 2021 Toyota Sienna will hit dealerships late November.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 09:38 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I completely disagree.
It was not a totally black-or-white issue, as I mentioned before.

I still think crossovers have the edge because their design typically allows for more sophisticated rear suspension setups.
Depends partly on the wheelbase. Crossovers, in general, ride much better than they used to, but some tall/shorter-wheelbase models still have slight bobbing-actions that are absent in minivans. As I mentioned, the Kia Sorento is, IMO, one of the best-riding crossovers I've sampled yet, even compared to theTelluride/Palisade


Lower trim crossovers have higher profile tires just like lower trim minivans. Overall, I prefer the way Crossovers drive because I like their seating position more, and I like the feel of them more, but minivans today are very nice.
Unless you have a big family, crossovers, in general, are usually more flexible, and it is easier to engineers to add AWD to them. With minivans, AWD used to conflict with Stow-and-Go seats that fold down underneath the floor, but technology can also deal with that as well.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 09:51 AM
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We're talking about very small wheelbase differences here, like an inch or two. Nothing dramatic enough to make a significant difference in how something drives.

StownGo is only an issue with Chrysler minivans, that doesnt explain why the Odyssey isnt AWD. Now the Pacifica is AWD and still has StownGo. There really mechanically isnt much difference between a minivan and a crossover, not really any harder to make a minivan AWD.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 10:13 AM
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That second row in the Sienna does look nice.
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Old Oct 27, 2020 | 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Allen K
That second row in the Sienna does look nice.
But its nice in an adult context, not really in a family context.
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