mmarshall

I never said otherwise. But vehicles that handle well don't necessarily have the superb steering and driving dynamics that older BMWs did. The BMW hydraulic steering system was magic. The electric system, even if it handles well, simply isn't.

If it was better than the G70, it would have beaten it in the comparison. It didn't. Raw numbers don't tell you everything.

Och

iTrader: (3)

How many BMWs with hydraulic and electronic systems did you drive, for an extended period?

mmarshall

An irrelevant and unnecessary question. The steering system itself is not going to change its basic road-feel and characteristics over time, unless a lot of fluid leaks out of the hoses (in hydraulic systems), and, in all systems, from minor effects from tire wear. All else equal, new tires of the same type will often restore the original feel.

tex2670

It is relevant. If you are going to say the system "is magic", you should say so from experience. Given your stature here, people trust what you say. If you are just repeating what you have read elsewhere, it should be clarified.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Thats not what I asked. I believe your experience with new BMWs is relatively limited, and you can't fully asses the steering systems based on short test drives of a couple of models. BMW had different hydraulic systems and different electronic systems that have different tuning and behavior. I will say that on most models the new electronic system is indeed a lot softer and more numb, but at the same time it is also variable having sport and comfort modes. However, on dedicated M and M sport models the electronic system is far superior to the old hydraulic system. I had the old 335i coupe, and I actually wasn't too crazy about its steering system - it was much too heavy when parking, great at slower speeds, and much too quick and twitchy at high speeds (70+ mph). Variable electronic systems already overcome these shortcomings, and they are constantly evolving and getting better and better. You should really test drive m240i, in both sport and comfort mode, and I believe you will develop an appreciation for its electronic steering.

RNM GS3

The E90/E92 cars had the BEST steering by far.
Regular folks didn’t like it because it was very heavy especially parking or slow speed turns.

The new electric steering systems on the F10 and F30 were GARBAGE!
I got rid of my 2012 528i primarily bec of the steering feel. My 2013 535i which also had electric steering was AMAZING but that car was fitted with 704Msport suspension and recalibrated steering feel. The later F30 3series also had steering that improved. The new G20 330i Msport i drove had very loose steering that a person coming from E90/92 generation cars would not recognize.
My current F80 M3 with Comp has very HEAVY steering which is what i prefer but it is still not as consistent or give enough feel that my old E92 335i had.
My BRZ has perfect steering feel - i was driving it last night and its just telepathic. Quick, direct, heavy enough, good feel of the road. Beside Porsche 911/Cayman, i think the BRZ/86 have the best steering out of any current cars.

Also to add - these days BMW aims to please a full spectrum of consumers hence you have variable steering, suspension etc. Yes it gives options but i trust the experts and engineers of BMW to give me their best mode for the car. With all these settings and options there is never perfect setting imo. Sometimes simpler is better - given the choice on the BMWs i have had, i always chose passive suspension and non-variable steering.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I guess to each its own, I also had plenty of BMWs - 2005 745i, 2010 335i coupe, 2015 x1, 2012 m235i, and still have 2012 X5, 2018 m2, and 2017 x6m. In the 740, x5 and x1 the hydraulic system is nothing to write home about - the 745 was a boat, and x5 and x1 with AWD just feel like any other car on the road, not any better than a Mazda 3 that I once had. The 335i was great, but I really didn't like how twitchy it was at high speeds, almost unforgiving. I absolutely love the steering in the m2 and m235i, perfect at any speed, great weight and feedback. On the other hand the X6M feels kind of weird, without much feedback, but that's too be expected with AWD.

Can't say anything about the BRZ, I'm sure it is great, but I once took a 2013 Miata on a short test drive and absolutely loved it's sharp steering and quick handling.

swajames

Yep, I have a 2013 Miata Club (it’s reasonably heavily modified, with a Fat Cat Motorsport Elite suspension, lightweight wheels and a few other things, but the following would still be true if it were stock) and it checks pretty much every steering, ride and handling box despite being the lowest cost vehicle I have. Simple is sometimes best.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Ok guys, enough about old bmw hydraulic steering, it’s IRRELEVANT today.

Toys4RJill

It is a good discussion. Neither the Tesla or the Genesis have hydraulic. BMW is on record for clearly saying that their owners want less feedback, this is what they the costumers want. These magazines and their BS agendas are a problem. My sister had a BMW 3 series, she always liked sporty but now went to a RAV4 and likes the handling and the steering better. Why? It’s easier to drive and the user experience is easier.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

It’s not about tesla and genesis here... is ANYONE still using hydraulic steering!?

Toys4RJill

Toyota still uses it in their trucks and body on frame SUVs. But I doubt any mainstream car uses today.

mmarshall

If, after your first comment, you still want an answer to the second one, here's my opinion: With most other other manufacturers (maybe Porsche excepted), whether they use hydraulic or electric steering makes little difference, since there isn't that much difference between the two in feel/feedback/response. But that's not the case with BMW....the old system was so magic-like that the new system, even though it is more efficient, takes less HP out of the engine, and is less-complex to build/repair/service, is simply not in the same ballpark. The old hydraulic BMW units were clearly in a class by themselves.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

So what they’re never coming back.

mmarshall

Probably not from the factory, but it might be interesting to see if retrofit kits are offered.