Toys4RJill

BMW has made it clear, their customers do not want more feedback. I don’t get what you are trying to argue? You have never owed one of those BMWs. Listen to what BMW is telling you, not what the magazines are clamouring about.

Toys4RJill

If they were truly desirable, they would be back. But they are not. Customers of BMW have made that clear

mmarshall

First, I don't take my opinions from magazines.....I think for myself. Second, you have (apparently) never owned a BMW either.....but that doesn't stop you from commenting. I do remember, though, something about you saying one of your relatives may have leased one.

Toys4RJill

Yes that would be correct. Multiple family members have owned BMWs in the past.

tex2670

That's only 1/2 true. If people stopped buying BMWs, and it was for THAT reason, they would be back. There are plenty of desirable things that don't come back just because they are desirable.

tex2670

No one is suggesting that ownership is a pre-requisite to comment on any vehicle. It's the substance of the comment that matters as to whether one speaks from actual experience.

Toys4RJill

There are many examples in the auto landscape of desirable things that have left, come back, stayed a while or perhaps left again then to come back again If hydraulic steering were that desirable or detrimental to the 3 series owner, BMW would bring it back.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

It’s not coming back, period. Fuel economy mandates, competition, cost, and reliability have all contributed.

Toys4RJill

I disagree that it would not come back. No for all 3 series models made but for some one off models, perhaps.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Also stability systems that are hard to implement with hydraulic systems. Just like traction control systems did away with throttles that were controlled by cable.

Toys4RJill

Why is that? I have stability control in my 4Runner and that has old fashioned hydraulic steering.

mmarshall

Jill is correct. There is nothing set in stone that says that hydraulic steering has gone (or has to go) the way of the dinosaur. The main issue driving it (no pun intended) was CAFE, and those standards can change with new Administrations or elected officials.



Not quite sure what you are getting at here. Most braking systems in current vehicles use hydraulic brake lines and fluid. Traction/Stability systems work by activating one or more of those brakes at a time, to control the amount of wheel-slip or understeer/oversteer.

mmarshall

OK, I'll bring the thread back on topic now. While I agree with the G70 besting the new 3-series in the comparison, I'm not so sure about the Model 3.....but I can't really comment much further because I have not driven a Model3. By my standards, I find the dash and instrumentation of the Model 3 to be a joke, but the reviewers seem enthralled with its magic-carpet powertrain.

Toys4RJill

But it has gone. People are not telling manufacturers they want hydraulic systems. The whole BMW thing is the magazines creating BS. If consumers demand them, then perhaps they return

mmarshall

It's true that the average car-buyer probably doesn't care (and, yes, there are some advantages to electric systems), but the idea that BMW's hydraulic steering is superior to the electric in fuel and feedback is most definitely not B.S.

I'll tell you what....here's my suggestion (and this is not meant to sound condescending...I know you are sensitive about that). Go to a good used-car place (like CarMax, if your area has one close by) or a BMW dealership that has some good examples of prior-generation 3-series with the hydraulic steering system. Try out one of those older models....you can tell if it has hydraulic steering by the presence of a hydraulic reservoir/pump (driven by the fan/serpentine belt), and hoses coming out of the pump. Then sample a newer 3-series with the electric steering (preferably, a non-M), and see if you don't feel a noticeable difference. I could be wrong, but I don't think, after that, that you will be calling the matter B.S.