2019 Toyota Avalon
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,226
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
And I have ALWAYS had respect for the Avalon's well-engineered, durable drivetrain, regardless of generation. And I liked the road-manners on the first-generation one...to the point where I seriously considered trading my (at that time) blue Celica for one. Up to now, the ONLY things I didn't like on the Avalon (and my opinion wasn't alone) was the suspension, sheet metal thickness, and interior hardware on the 4Gen redesign in 2013/2014. And we've already discussed that to death.....so I'm not going to go into that in detail again here.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jan 24, 2018 at 06:50 PM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,690
Likes: 543
From: Ca
Agreed that the ski-ramp is somewhat goofy-looking, but Jill has a point about the climate-control set-up being at least a decently good design. The only thing I would change on it is swap the rocker-push controls for the temperature to nice round *****.
(Oh....and to the CL staff: Thank you for getting that fixed. The censor-software used to occasionally (in and out) blank out the word "*****" with a row of *****. Now, that doesn't seem to be a problem any more.
(Oh....and to the CL staff: Thank you for getting that fixed. The censor-software used to occasionally (in and out) blank out the word "*****" with a row of *****. Now, that doesn't seem to be a problem any more.
Lexus uses push button temperature controls on my GS, and some touch sensitive slide on wife's IS, however you are right - a large round dial for temperature control is far more ergonomic, as it allows us to keep our eyes on the road.
***** are ergonomic, but I don't like *****, because when you say *****, you are implying a small diameter rotary dial, which is certainly ergonomic, but looks cheap.
Hence, I prefer two small dials for the hi-fi, and two large diameter dials for the LHS and RHS temperature control.
Just me, but I don't mind the Camry and Avalon and other Toyota model styling looking a bit 2nd rate, as long the the premium Lexus models look good...
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
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From: MD
The younger crowd also has never know cheap gas. When I was in college, I was making minimum wage and spending over $4.00 a gallon on gas. And while I cannot speak for everyone, more than a decade has gone by and I haven't forgotten. Thus, I would think that Toyota would have offered the 2.0L turbo instead of the 3.5L in the Camry and Avalon, as is the industry trend and what it speaking to the younger generation. I assume that Toyota has done their homework, but nevertheless, they just can't seem to get themselves off of that V6.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
The younger crowd also has never know cheap gas. When I was in college, I was making minimum wage and spending over $4.00 a gallon on gas. And while I cannot speak for everyone, more than a decade has gone by and I haven't forgotten. Thus, I would think that Toyota would have offered the 2.0L turbo instead of the 3.5L in the Camry and Avalon, as is the industry trend and what it speaking to the younger generation. I assume that Toyota has done their homework, but nevertheless, they just can't seem to get themselves off of that V6.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 0
From: MD
Toyota must have some research or they know something within their customers to not go the Turbo route. I thought for sure, 100% they would go turbo. Now contrast to the everyone-loves-Hyundai-but-provides-no-evidence-that-they-really-do, they went turbo and they adopted turbo early. Their sales are down three straight years in a row. Expecting lower sales this year as well.
Again, I guess I am speaking for me and not necessarily everyone else. But when I ordered my WRX I was quite pleased to see that Subaru had downsized the engine. Having owned a 2.5L Legacy GT prior to it, the WRX is more powerful and I average 7 MPG better. 7! ....I guess it will be interesting to see how the Camry stacks up against the new Accord.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
Perhaps they might like the larger engine. Really hard to tell. Maybe Toyota feels that when a buyer test drives the Accord vs Camry, the potential Camry buyer is simply getting a different experience with no turbo and the larger engine. Toyota also has likely the highest retention rate and repeat buyers, so the Camry buyer or Avalon buyer perhaps is on their 3rd or 4th model in their lifetime might not care? I do believe that when there is an option of NA vs Turbo in the option list, it clouds over the purchase process. Accord has two turbos while the Civic has the option, I think you need to either all NA or all turbo to be success. Accord has done this.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 0
From: MD
Perhaps they might like the larger engine. Really hard to tell. Maybe Toyota feels that when a buyer test drives the Accord vs Camry, the potential Camry buyer is simply getting a different experience with no turbo and the larger engine. Toyota also has likely the highest retention rate and repeat buyers, so the Camry buyer or Avalon buyer perhaps is on their 3rd or 4th model in their lifetime might not care? I do believe that when there is an option of NA vs Turbo in the option list, it clouds over the purchase process. Accord has two turbos while the Civic has the option, I think you need to either all NA or all turbo to be success. Accord has done this.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
My guess is most people purchase the regular gas engine in the CRV. The smaller car and SUV is much more price sensitive. When I bought my Corolla, I didn’t have a lot of money to spend past $25K taxes in. I am sure most people do not either at these price points or they would not be buying a car for $25K. At the time there was a second option and that was for a more powerful and more efficient ECO model, but they wanted $700 at time for 8 more horses and a little extra MPG. But I think I couldn’t get the options I wanted in for under 25k. With regards to the Avalon, 300+ is pretty impressive for FWD sedan. I wonder what the cost would be for Toyota to delveiop a comparable engine that is smaller in displacement and yet yields the same 300 horses. My guess is that is does not make sense to do it.
Driver
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
I see a few reasons why they keep the V6:
1. It's used in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, ES, IS, GS and RX.
2. A turbo 4 is no replacement for it. Just look at the new Accord. I'm sure if Honda had updated the V6 and attached it to the new 10 speed automatic, it would run rings around the 2.0l turbo in performance and fuel economy.
3. It's makes money for them. Whatever they spent on it, they have already recovered it.
4. They got no engine above the 240hp 2.0l turbo 4 in the NX other than the new turbo V6 in the new LS.
1. It's used in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, ES, IS, GS and RX.
2. A turbo 4 is no replacement for it. Just look at the new Accord. I'm sure if Honda had updated the V6 and attached it to the new 10 speed automatic, it would run rings around the 2.0l turbo in performance and fuel economy.
3. It's makes money for them. Whatever they spent on it, they have already recovered it.
4. They got no engine above the 240hp 2.0l turbo 4 in the NX other than the new turbo V6 in the new LS.
Last edited by Wallie3145; Jan 27, 2018 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Added another reason.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,285
Likes: 311
From: ON/NY
I see a few reasons why they keep the V6:
1. It's used in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, ES, IS, GS and RX.
2. A turbo 4 is no replacement for it. Just look at the new Accord. I'm sure if Honda had updated the V6 and attached it to the new 10 speed automatic, it would run rings around the 2.0l turbo in performance and fuel economy.
3. It's makes money for them. Whatever they spent on it, they have already recovered it.
4. They got no engine above the 240hp 2.0l turbo 4 in the NX other than the new turbo V6 in the new LS.
1. It's used in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, ES, IS, GS and RX.
2. A turbo 4 is no replacement for it. Just look at the new Accord. I'm sure if Honda had updated the V6 and attached it to the new 10 speed automatic, it would run rings around the 2.0l turbo in performance and fuel economy.
3. It's makes money for them. Whatever they spent on it, they have already recovered it.
4. They got no engine above the 240hp 2.0l turbo 4 in the NX other than the new turbo V6 in the new LS.
How do the Hyundai and Honda turbos compare to the updated Toyota 3.5?