2019 Toyota Supra
01-21-19, 10:31 AM
#781
Lexus Fanatic
$150-200 a month influences my leasing decisions and I'm at a payment already thats over $1,000 a month...
01-21-19, 03:21 PM
#782
This Supra actually has a bigger problem than the MKIV guys being upset with it. The Premium version is $54K? That's in the 10-15 grand neighborhood of the Z4 M40i at $65K. I like this Supra but it's pricing is what's going to be the issue. The actual driving and testing should give the Supra some positives because it is a coupe vs the Z4 being a convertible.
But if in a future scenerio somehow all bets are off and the Bimmer boys build their version of a coupe... well I dunno.
But if in a future scenerio somehow all bets are off and the Bimmer boys build their version of a coupe... well I dunno.
01-21-19, 03:43 PM
#783
Lexus Fanatic
You've made some posts in the past, though, suggesting that, in your life, money is not an object, and you'd send your kids even to Harvard if that is where they wanted to go. Not trying to be nosey, just pointing that out.
01-21-19, 03:45 PM
#784
Lexus Test Driver
Do you see how the statements "the pricing is going to make the vehicle fail" and "you won't be able to get one at MSRP, they will mark them up 15-20k" are contradictions?
If as you say nobody will buy this because the Z4 is "only $10-15,000 more", then dealers certainly won't be able to command an ADM.
Doesn't make any sense.
The difference is way more than $50 a month. Assuming a 60 month finance at 4% interest $10,000 is $180 a month. $15,000 is $276 a month. Sorry, but that's a big difference and its a difference that is going to get peoples attention and impact their decision making. $10-15,000 difference in price on a $50,000 car puts the Z4 in an entirely different league.
If as you say nobody will buy this because the Z4 is "only $10-15,000 more", then dealers certainly won't be able to command an ADM.
Doesn't make any sense.
The difference is way more than $50 a month. Assuming a 60 month finance at 4% interest $10,000 is $180 a month. $15,000 is $276 a month. Sorry, but that's a big difference and its a difference that is going to get peoples attention and impact their decision making. $10-15,000 difference in price on a $50,000 car puts the Z4 in an entirely different league.
Z4 will hit the market first as BMW negotiatiated this.
Supra will roll out a few months later.
Z4 has never been a big seller and doesn’t have a huge enthusiast following like the current M2, M3/4 etc.
To me both cars cater to really different buyers. It will be easier to buy a $65k Z4 for $60 then to get Supra that MSRP for $54k at $60k due to ADM. I would say this will be the case for at least first 6months.
I think the Supra will sell in much higher #s than Z4, probably 2 to 1.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-21-19 at 03:48 PM.
01-21-19, 04:36 PM
#785
Wrong! I'll get the Supra not for the name, but because I think its a great looking BMW two seater coupe with great performance. I never liked BMW Z series because they are convertibles and look weird, so I always went for the coupes. So far I had 3 BMW coupes - e92 335, m235i and the M2. The Supra name is an added bonus of course, but I'd still get this car even if it was a joint effort with Nissan and it was called Z300. Or if it was just a new BMW series.
Like I said before, the Supra name and heritage is great, but I'm not going to wait til my pubes turn great for Toyota to make another Supra. I like the new Supra on its own merit.
01-21-19, 04:54 PM
#786
Lexus Test Driver
LOL ok well thats you.
Go on MKV forum - most of those guys never owned a BMW. They just want to say they have a Supra and could care less its 99.9% bimmer. The aftermarket support will also drive many ppl to it, im sure every tuner will have one at SEMA with a Widebody kit.
BTW good luck on getting one anytime soon.
Go on MKV forum - most of those guys never owned a BMW. They just want to say they have a Supra and could care less its 99.9% bimmer. The aftermarket support will also drive many ppl to it, im sure every tuner will have one at SEMA with a Widebody kit.
BTW good luck on getting one anytime soon.
01-21-19, 05:54 PM
#787
Pole Position
LOL ok well thats you.
Go on MKV forum - most of those guys never owned a BMW. They just want to say they have a Supra and could care less its 99.9% bimmer. The aftermarket support will also drive many ppl to it, im sure every tuner will have one at SEMA with a Widebody kit.
BTW good luck on getting one anytime soon.
Go on MKV forum - most of those guys never owned a BMW. They just want to say they have a Supra and could care less its 99.9% bimmer. The aftermarket support will also drive many ppl to it, im sure every tuner will have one at SEMA with a Widebody kit.
BTW good luck on getting one anytime soon.
And as to the above posts allided to, $55k is already a lot of money for a car for most folks. To spend thousands more to "soup" it up is beyond what most people will want to do. Aftermarket support will become relevant once these start showing up as used affordable second hand value rockets.
01-21-19, 06:37 PM
#788
Lexus Test Driver
I think the twins have sold in decent #s.
They built loyal following overtime all over the world not just US and the aftermarket support has been very strong obviously.
The idea is to graduate those owners to the Supra as they get older with higher income.
The customer base is there that want a faster great handling 86/BRZ.
As far as aftermarket support - i think most owners of performance cars modify them in some way - whether its aftermarket accessories or ones provided by manufacturer themselves like BMW Mperformance parts, Subaru STI parts, etc
Still really enjoy my BRZ - they did a masterful job on the chassis, seating position, steering feel, seats, shifter feel, etc. All for under $30k is amazing and weighs 2,700lbs
They built loyal following overtime all over the world not just US and the aftermarket support has been very strong obviously.
The idea is to graduate those owners to the Supra as they get older with higher income.
The customer base is there that want a faster great handling 86/BRZ.
As far as aftermarket support - i think most owners of performance cars modify them in some way - whether its aftermarket accessories or ones provided by manufacturer themselves like BMW Mperformance parts, Subaru STI parts, etc
Still really enjoy my BRZ - they did a masterful job on the chassis, seating position, steering feel, seats, shifter feel, etc. All for under $30k is amazing and weighs 2,700lbs
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-21-19 at 06:46 PM.
01-21-19, 09:23 PM
#789
Lexus Champion
The Supra's chief engineer said the Cayman is the benchmark for this Supra, meaning that Toyota was not going for a GT/Super car - as the last Supra is described by fans. So basically you get a Cayman competitor that in its premium version tops out where the Cayman starts. It's no coincidence that the Porsche starts at $56K while the Toyota ends at $55K. That comparison aside, there is also no denying that this is a Supra with the Z4's heart and soul.
How's a Toyota dealership going to hype this car? Will the salesperson say, "oh this is a Bimmer under the skin, It's a Z4 with all the good stuff that makes BMWs fun to drive." Or will they say, "it's our answer to the Cayman, but you won't spend $65-70K to get a proper sports car.
Toyota's pricing is going to be an interesting experiment. The base Corvette runs 425hp and it starts in the mid-50s, although it's a different demographic of buyers. Corvette has beome an old rich man's car. Are the Cayman and the Supra even going to be cross-shopped. Luxury brand vs a mass market company's sports car?
The Supra should get really good driving reviews because of course, it's got all the things that make BMWs praiseworthy. How it sells at $55K over the long run will be a big question mark.
How's a Toyota dealership going to hype this car? Will the salesperson say, "oh this is a Bimmer under the skin, It's a Z4 with all the good stuff that makes BMWs fun to drive." Or will they say, "it's our answer to the Cayman, but you won't spend $65-70K to get a proper sports car.
Toyota's pricing is going to be an interesting experiment. The base Corvette runs 425hp and it starts in the mid-50s, although it's a different demographic of buyers. Corvette has beome an old rich man's car. Are the Cayman and the Supra even going to be cross-shopped. Luxury brand vs a mass market company's sports car?
The Supra should get really good driving reviews because of course, it's got all the things that make BMWs praiseworthy. How it sells at $55K over the long run will be a big question mark.
01-21-19, 10:27 PM
#790
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i just got back from paris where i saw a line of over 100 chinese women waiting to buy louis vuitton bags at over $1000 ea. like it was nothing...
01-22-19, 04:50 AM
#791
Lexus Fanatic
my math may have been off and everyone has a level of sensitivity to prices and variance, etc., but SOME as i pointed out, simply wouldn't care if a car was $10-20k more if it was what they wanted.
i just got back from paris where i saw a line of over 100 chinese women waiting to buy louis vuitton bags at over $1000 ea. like it was nothing...
i just got back from paris where i saw a line of over 100 chinese women waiting to buy louis vuitton bags at over $1000 ea. like it was nothing...
all kidding aside how does math come into play with a $50/mo. figure, that's more common sense.
01-22-19, 05:02 AM
#792
Lexus Fanatic
Again, unless one's household income is > $250k, Harvard (all the elites) is cheap. When kids get into these elite schools, they are doing their parents a financial solid. The only other thing is they consider a % of assets as well. Meaning, your household income is $60k and your kid gets in, it's totally free. Then there is a progressive scale. At the other end, your income is $250k, it's approximately $25k. That's cheaper than a state university. A friend told me her girl at Yale, the exact figure was 4.6% of assets, which she griped that as a single mom she was being penalized for being a saver and for paying down her mortgage, as if some window dressing is needed (ironic but fair, right?). When I went to school there was a question of whether schools were truly need blind--I kind of like how they settled that question. At the same time acceptance was 19% for us, it's closer to 5% today, making it a lottery of perfect applicants. Should a 5 y.o. be yelled at like John Tortorella yells at his players? Unfortunately some say yes, if they are gonna make it (I say no).
edit: I looked it up and the number Harvard publishes is $12,450 as the average contribution from parents. I don't see any reason for them to fudge that number. Typical scholarship and grants $56,550, with the rest being $3,300 of students working during term and during summers.
Last edited by Johnhav430; 01-22-19 at 05:10 AM.
01-22-19, 09:40 AM
#793
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Ok harvard tuition and admission policies is hardly relevant to the Supra. Back on topic please.
01-22-19, 10:06 AM
#794
Pole Position
I think the twins have sold in decent #s.
They built loyal following overtime all over the world not just US and the aftermarket support has been very strong obviously.
The idea is to graduate those owners to the Supra as they get older with higher income.
The customer base is there that want a faster great handling 86/BRZ.
As far as aftermarket support - i think most owners of performance cars modify them in some way - whether its aftermarket accessories or ones provided by manufacturer themselves like BMW Mperformance parts, Subaru STI parts, etc
Still really enjoy my BRZ - they did a masterful job on the chassis, seating position, steering feel, seats, shifter feel, etc. All for under $30k is amazing and weighs 2,700lbs
They built loyal following overtime all over the world not just US and the aftermarket support has been very strong obviously.
The idea is to graduate those owners to the Supra as they get older with higher income.
The customer base is there that want a faster great handling 86/BRZ.
As far as aftermarket support - i think most owners of performance cars modify them in some way - whether its aftermarket accessories or ones provided by manufacturer themselves like BMW Mperformance parts, Subaru STI parts, etc
Still really enjoy my BRZ - they did a masterful job on the chassis, seating position, steering feel, seats, shifter feel, etc. All for under $30k is amazing and weighs 2,700lbs
01-22-19, 11:15 AM
#795
Lexus Fanatic
Highly doubt those 86 owners will graduate straight to a Supra. As people age, their lives and priorities change. What was once fun to have will become burdensome or even tiring. And as they have higher income, their tastes will change. I dont know how everyone else is, but as I got older, comfort, convenience, value, family, kids and etc became more of a priority. Expensive 2 doors are waaay down on the list and far off in the future and even then I'm thinking about a use LC500 in 10 yrs.
All kidding aside I don't think people are groomed into vehicles and it would be a waste of marketing dollars. It's more live for today, or rather, the next 36 mos. Kids are huge, when I was up in Montréal my colleague's daughter was seriously injured and he could not focus the entire time and this was a project with major exposure for us. I totally understood and did all I could to help. There are certainly new sets of priorities as we get older. I think either car will be fine, just that I'd prefer the BMW in this case. I wouldn't kick a Supra out of the stable, pretty certain it would be a blast to drive.