2008GS

This is a rant in hopes that Mr.Toyoda is listening...before you send me hate mail, let me explain. I have worked as a Lexus Svc Advisor and been immersed in the Lexus world for several years. I own 2 Lexus currently, and had two others in the past. My allegiance is to Lexus. My favorite book is "The Lexus Story". I have been fortunate to enjoy and participate in the glory days of sales and marketing successes during the 2000-2006 years when Lexus owned the Luxury segment. However, the glory days are over. Lexus RULED the Luxury sedan segment only to lose it back to the Germans. I currently work for Nissan/Infiniti and I see up close their product and marketing strategies. The new 400hp twin turbo V6 is awesome. They are outselling the IS/GS by a large margin. Lexus WAS state-of-the-art but today the competition has copied us and caught up to us. Lexus innovations like French-stitched leather, premium materials, top tier service departments, in-store bistros, door-to-door vehicle service, all copied by competitors. The new Q60S coupe is beautiful in design, luxurious in appointments, and fast in performance. The Q50S is another sales success. Mr. Toyoda states he wants LEXUS to be more performance oriented and that is GREAT. However, he isn't offering products to compete. The F products are top notch, but fall short of competitors in their price category. There is talk of nuking the next gen GS! We need to regain #1 status. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE the RC-F (naturally-aspired V8 is rare today), but due to the construction of the platform, the car is too heavy to compete. The LC500 is awesome and a possibly segment-leader. The new LS is astonishingly elegant and luxurious. But, if Lexus cannot create new innovations, we are in trouble. Am I the only one who feels Lexus has lost it's way? Please provide positive feedback and reasons to support why I should remain optimistic about the Lexus brand.

S2000toIS350

I hear you

I went from my 2006 IS350 to the 2014 Q50S Hybrid AWD

Even 4 years later, the Q50 is still pretty current in terms of tech and has been a fantastic commuter, with plenty of room in the back seats to go out for family dinners.

The LS is too big for me.

The LC is a winner but with no vert or AWD, and no F version yet, I am happy I went with my NSX (Acura is in even worse shape than Lexus by a long stretch). Lexus is certainly moving toward driver oriented cars.

I continue to say the investment in the LFA starved other areas (like drivetrain development) and they are suffering for it now.

I hope Lexus does a new GS but not holding my breath.

2008GS

We can only hope S2000toIS350!

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

All those 'luxury features' like heated rear seats and moonroofs can be had on a Hyundai Elantra now. Seemingly all manufacturers are coming to an equilibrium where content is the same, reliability and much more, to the point where its pick your favorite badge and color. That's no big deal. That's why you differentiate by your dealership experience, the stories of the processes that make the vehicle special etc. Sales is a teeter totter, and most everyone gets time in the spotlight before someone else comes and hogs it.

I'd bet the 208hp and 300hp Q50/60's are outselling the 400hp version.

No one is fully state of the art. Just because a vehicle has a luxury badge does not make it the cream of the crop.

Imitation is a sincerest form of flattery. Obviously Lexus is doing something right for automakers to mirror practices. But even so, Lexus holds onto its covenant.

Agreed on the exterior. Though you neglect to mention the Q50 and Q60 get knocked time and again for the dual screen waterfall. Though I haven't heard much since its release, but DAS was also a huge sore spot.

These things don't happen over night. In five short years since the 2013 GS's release in 2012, the GS has ushered a change in design, dynamics, and luxury throughout the line-up. Now we're on the cusp of a new generation of powertrains that will begin to find their way into the Lexus stable.

If you work for a dealership then you know your sales department has sold performance cars for less than the sticker, . Not to mention if you've taken your classes and have the tenure needed, sometimes you qualify for a Master Lease by your dealership and/or manufacturer you represent.

cmk1 debunked that myth. There will most definitely be a 5th generation GS.




One doesn't have to gloat to be the best. If your product and service are truly outstanding, then they will speak for themselves.

The RC and RC F were built on 3IS, IS C, 4GS underpinnings back when the LF-C2 concept (RC Convertible) was in the cards. The project was since shelved. The 2018 LS500 lost 200lbs on the new GA-L platform, a good sign that when the RC comes due for its redesign, it will be presumably lighter along with IS and GS stablemates.

What innovations do you want? Lexus is debuting a new multi-stage transmission on several models. LS will be debuting a version of LSS+ with Pedestrian Avoidance. Methods of design like pleated door trims inspired by Origami, and unique glass inserts are showing Lexus is designing interiors with more emotion and expression.

If the nomenclature for the 2018 NX is changing from 200t to NX300, and the LS 3.5L V6TT finds its way into the IS, RC, and GS, then its a good bet GS400 F-Sport is right around the corner to combat the 540i, Q50 Red Sport 400, E400 etc..

Lexus lost their way? This is one of the most exciting times to be around Lexus!

Sulu

You can always rely on Hoovey to be the torchbearer for the Lexus brand!

greg3852

If they want to compete in the performance market then they need to come up with a vehicle that can wow people that doesnt cost $150k.

BrownPride

From the perspective of a German car aficionado who just a few years ago would never have looked at a Lexus (save for the 2-IS, which is why i got one), I'm more impressed w/ Lexus than I've ever been.

Yes they're a bit over styled, lacking in performance (see the RC, GSF, and all the slow F-sport models), and don't have the best interiors in the business, but they're finally making cars with passion and that appeals to me. I love the LC and the forthcoming LS, which based on photos appears like it'll be right there with the S-class as the standard of the segment.

With that being said, the GS and IS are surprisingly getting a bit long in the tooth. Visually they're still modern and right there with the rest of the segment, but Mercedes, Audi, and Infiniti (Q50/60), and BMW (5er) have all released redesigns of their models recently. I know for a fact that the next generations will be great cars after seeing how good the LC and LS turned out.

To put it short, Lexus products have always been "lacking" compared to the best from Germany (besides in reliability/cost of ownership), but they aren't that far behind as of late.

mmarshall

You state (correctly) that the 2000-2006 time frame was a very good one for Lexus, and I agree......I myself owned a 2001 IS300 (one of the comparably few bright-yellow ones produced). After that, though, Lexus started yielding ground to the Germans, not because of sport-orientation or "character" issues, but because of cost-cutting and a general use of more lightweight parts in their vehicles. First, you can blame the bean-counters, more than the stylists or those who design power trains or suspensions, for the German gains. Second, when Lexus DID start to place emphasis on sportiness, it drove many of their potential buyers out of the GS and into the ES....the reason for the ES's huge popularity. The ES still drives in a manner that originally made Lexus famous...smooth, quiet, and refined, though the 5th and 6th-generation ES models were not as cushy as the superb 4Gen model, and lacked the beautiful wood trim inside.

As Lexus Service-Advisor who supervised the service and repairs on these vehicles for a living, you are (or were) probably in a good position to see for yourself, first-hand, how the solidness of the construction of the average Lexus model got lighter and less-solid after that 2006 time-frame you refer to. IMO, look no further than that to (primarily) explain why the Germans caught up. An added factor was that the increasing stiffness of the tires and suspensions in post-2006 models drove a number of Lexus loyalists either into the ES or away from the brand, period. Cadillac, when they did the same thing and tried turn their products into BMWs, also suffered some of that customer-drain.

(An exception, though, are the Lexus GX and LX truck-based SUVs.....they were originally built like tanks, and, to an extent, still are. But, compared to the huge-selling ES and RX, they are basically just niche-vehicles).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i agree. the development of the (stunning) LFA not only must have cost a staggering amount of money, it also took a huge amount of time and effort. besides the moving gauge cluster, what else carried forward from it? the car was so expensive to buy vs. the rest of the line-up and with only 500 made worldwide, i believe the halo effect it had was negligible. but as i've always said, i LOVE the lfa anyway. i just think it was a mistake.

100% disagree. the goal should be that you NEVER have to go to the dealer. everyone has better things to do. i have no interest at all of the 'stories of the processes', how many people slave over slabs of wood or pieces of leather, glass, etc. it's all fluff because let's face it, the PRECISION of car making is due to automation and robots, not people building them.

we always seem to be on the cusp yet still years away... and yes, a 'change' was ushered in, but it's obviously been controversial and i'm not only talking about the grille. i personally know many people who loved the first few gens of RX but can't stand the sight of the latest one. but much of the 'change' hasn't amounted to much since lexus is still selling now ancient models like GX, LX, and LS. and beyond controversial, some of the 'newer' designs just aren't very interesting (CT, IS). the brand right now belongs to the ES and NX and the RX still selling pretty well based on intertia.

and we see the next GS won't be here until 2019. it will probably look like a shorter new LS if i had to guess.

what i want is autonomous driving, world class voice recognition, world class phone integration, world class sophistication in suspension that can be supremely comfortable or supremely capable when desired, world class quiet, world class lightness, and simple things like fold down rear seats on all sedans, world class wheel fitment (not inset or with huge fender gaps that make it look like they chose tires that are too small), and finally, not to have to go to the dealer, ever.

lexus is obviously doing things... LC, new LS, presumably a 3 row RX type vehicle, but lexus just seems to proceed at a glacial pace in the past decade. they need a new GX, LX, CT, GS right now to name a few needs.

i WANT to buy another lexus... but i do not believe they are that competitive right now.

webra

As a long term Lexus owner hoping for a future upgrade, I sense that:

They seem to have have given up on Hybrid leadership, current cars doing a mediocre job in performance and economy. It's performance cars look fast but are not, particularly disappointing are the turbos. The infotainment system is complex yet cumbersome and dated. And the range of engines within each model is limited.

Perhaps a brand noted for reliability and head turning style alone without the other virtues is just as compromised as the performance brands with mediocre durability. Lexus does SUV’s quite well, and represents a luxury SUV brand well.

So I do find that the Alfa Gulia, for example, is far more tempting than I ever expected it to be. Waiting to see some comparisons between the Gulia and a Lexus.

LeX2K

How is it you never learned to use paragraphs.

Toys4RJill

Another rant and Lexus hate thread. No surprise. The current Lexus products are competitive.

mmarshall

I disagree. Stating one's opinions of the direction a company is headed in is not ranting. And, from what I can recall you telling us, despite the "CT" part of your screen-name, you were less-than-satisfied with your own CT.

LH1

The GS and IS aren't. Do you look at the sales figures GS69 posts each month?

In about a week or so we'll see April was another horrendous month for those two.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Well since no one's truly there yet with exception of brokers and third parties, when you do go to a dealer, you will want to be treated well.

This isn't about robots. Stories and accolades like some Lexus factories are some of the most awarded internationally. They have master Takumi artisans who before they achieved their status and hand stitch dashes have to demonstrate the ability to fold an origami cat with their non dominant hand. The Shimamoku wood involves 67 processes of alternating layers of light and dark wood over 38 days. Things that are distinctive can make the vehicle more special to the owner. I'm sure there are stories inside and outside about your Grand Cherokee (it is based on ML architecture after all) that make it far more interesting and desirable than say a Sorento.

Design is subjective so its take it or leave it. For what it's worth every iteration of the Spindle tends to get better, in regards to a more cohesive look as time passes. Before it looked slapped on.

The interior and powertrain will be the presumably most interesting things.

Those are some good ones. The fold down seat one should become more common ever since the 2014 IS introduced the feature.

That's Lexus though, slow and steady wins the race. I think Lexus does tend to march to the beat of their own drum, which irks enthusiasts. CT is gone after this year, it will be re purposed as the UX, since Lexus sees the market trend towards CUVs.

Well good thing the Grand Cherokee is a great vehicle in the meantime