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Old May 9, 2017 | 08:06 AM
  #106  
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I like to use Porsche as an example of depth (the number of iterations within a model).

they have 15 versions of the Panamera, 5 of which are hybrids.

the selection offered to the consumer is beyond belief.

and then you layer on the ability to option the car to preference

lexus is hopeless next to them
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Old May 9, 2017 | 01:14 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by situman
I'm confused. You plan on getting rid of the ISF because there wasn't a F for the 3rd gen? Did your ISF all of a sudden turn into a pile of crap or any less enjoyable?
Not sure how I could be any more clear. As Allen K mentioned, the problem was what to replace my IS-F with once I found out I couldn't replace it with another IS-F. I never cast glances elsewhere until it started becoming apparent there wasn't going to be a 3rd gen IS-F.

Originally Posted by situman
Buying the Cayman seems like a change of taste and needs more than anything else. If you need a tall sports car with a good size trunk, good that you got the Cayman.
Note I got the Cayman for my DD, not the Cayenne.

Last edited by gengar; May 9, 2017 at 01:20 PM. Reason: fix quote tag
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Old May 10, 2017 | 11:29 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Sulu
What makes you accuse Japanese designers as incompetent?
Because we see what the American and European studios produce, and the Japanese are lacking.

Lexus LF-FC concept, designed in Newport Beach by CALTY vs the production LS500 designed in Japan as an example.
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Old May 11, 2017 | 05:50 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
Because we see what the American and European studios produce, and the Japanese are lacking.

Lexus LF-FC concept, designed in Newport Beach by CALTY vs the production LS500 designed in Japan as an example.
Just because you don't like the styling of the designed-in-Japan models, but prefer American- or European-designed models does not make Japanese designers incompetent.

Reaction to styling is entirely subjective: You may not like a particular style while others may; that does not make the style bad or the stylists incompetent.
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Old May 11, 2017 | 06:09 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Sulu
Just because you don't like the styling of the designed-in-Japan models, but prefer American- or European-designed models does not make Japanese designers incompetent.

Reaction to styling is entirely subjective: You may not like a particular style while others may; that does not make the style bad or the stylists incompetent.
Look at GM, the Encore in particular. The interior design was handled by a young woman in China. What happened? The quality went way up. The examples are numerous, but a simple one is that the wires to the rearview mirror were clad in a clamshell, as they are in Euro cars. The newer Envision, has a rearview mirror similar to Cadillac, which is a throwback to Eric Clapton and BB King doing, "Riding with the King." The mirror is electronic, yet has no frame. imho whether or not these designs are seen, are controlled by the car co. So I would agree, as the designer, I can provide really good design, but it may not make it to production....
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Old May 11, 2017 | 06:53 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Look at GM, the Encore in particular. The interior design was handled by a young woman in China. What happened? The quality went way up. The examples are numerous, but a simple one is that the wires to the rearview mirror were clad in a clamshell, as they are in Euro cars. The newer Envision, has a rearview mirror similar to Cadillac, which is a throwback to Eric Clapton and BB King doing, "Riding with the King." The mirror is electronic, yet has no frame. imho whether or not these designs are seen, are controlled by the car co. So I would agree, as the designer, I can provide really good design, but it may not make it to production....
Designing and building are two separate things. You can design a great looking car, but if the manufacturer decides to use tinfoil to make the car, the design becomes pointless.
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Old May 11, 2017 | 07:19 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Look at GM, the Encore in particular. The interior design was handled by a young woman in China. What happened? The quality went way up. The examples are numerous, but a simple one is that the wires to the rearview mirror were clad in a clamshell, as they are in Euro cars. The newer Envision, has a rearview mirror similar to Cadillac, which is a throwback to Eric Clapton and BB King doing, "Riding with the King." The mirror is electronic, yet has no frame. imho whether or not these designs are seen, are controlled by the car co. So I would agree, as the designer, I can provide really good design, but it may not make it to production....
Originally Posted by situman
Designing and building are two separate things. You can design a great looking car, but if the manufacturer decides to use tinfoil to make the car, the design becomes pointless.
Let's not confuse style design with engineering design. Style design is how it looks (whether the interior rearview mirror has a bezel (frame around the glass), for example); engineering design is to translate the style to something that is safe, usable and can be manufactured effectively and efficiently.

It is possible that a style design cannot be effectively and cost-efficiently manufactured, so the engineers may have to modify a style to make it work. A few years ago, a rearview mirror without a bezel was not possible to mass manufacture; it is now, but it may still be expensive to do so, such that the automaker would not use it on a small, low-margin car, but may decide to use it on a larger, premium model.
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Old May 11, 2017 | 10:49 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Look at GM, the Encore in particular. The interior design was handled by a young woman in China. What happened? The quality went way up.
No. The Encore, like the Verano, Cascada, and current-generation Regal, are reliable and well-built because they are essentially re-badged German Opels. Recent Opel products have had a good reputation for quality.....and have been one of the main factors bringing Buick, in general, up to level (#3) behind only Lexus and Toyota in reliability.
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