Lexus New Products are Lacking
05-01-17, 06:32 AM
#61
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Part of that may gets back to where the cars are actually built. In many cases, it's easier to order something from a domestic plant in the U.S. (or nearby Canada) than it is to order from halfway around the world, such as Japan/China/Korea. Of course, BMW, and some other European manufacturers, used to have an extra-cost package (I don't know if they still do) where you would place your order here, fly to Europe, pick up your new car at the plant (or the closest dealer to the plant) where the plant will build and deliver it to American-specs, spend a week or two at some nice hotels and driving around Europe, taking in the scenery and/or the Alps, and then have the car shipped back to the U.S., where you pick it up at the harbor (New York?) and drive it back home. Nice deal...except that, by the time you finally get it back home, it's not really a new car any more LOL. 
05-01-17, 06:38 AM
#62
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I would like to see an included maintenance plan. Personally to me a huge luxury feature of a BMW or a Genesis is that included maintenance. Its luxurious not to have to think about the cost of maintenance. Its like an all inclusive resort. Yes I understand I'm not saving money, I'm paying a lot for every meal I eat or drink I drink, but its nice not to have to think about it at all.
I'm all for longer service if it doesn't reduce vehicle longevity or reliability, as I firmly believe it does for BMW. The tires on my Lexus need to be rotated every 5k miles or it will reduce tire life.
I'm all for longer service if it doesn't reduce vehicle longevity or reliability, as I firmly believe it does for BMW. The tires on my Lexus need to be rotated every 5k miles or it will reduce tire life.
05-01-17, 06:41 AM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
It's no easier to special order cars from Germany than it is from Japan. Lexus could do it, they just don't want to. It's inefficient and the Japanese are all about efficiency.
They still have European delivery as an option, as does Mercedes. Sometimes that actually saves you money because it does something with the tariffs...
They still have European delivery as an option, as does Mercedes. Sometimes that actually saves you money because it does something with the tariffs...
Now I remember, my title says 3 mi., but since I didn't pick it up the day it came off the carrier (it was a Friday and raining), the dealer had to drive it 1/2 mile up the road to store it overnight. They asked me if that would be ok....
Buying a new BMW in late 2006 was the closest I've ever been to being treated like I was somebody! LOL But the service is the pits!!
05-01-17, 06:42 AM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
I haven't owned a BMW, but, in my experience over many reviews and test-drives, for years, BMW, until recently, actually deserved the "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan....it wasn't just advertising. Their hydraulic power-steering systems and chassis/suspension engineering was, IMO, virtually unmatched, especially for serious drivers looking for tactile feed-back from the systems. Though they were not the cars for me, I could easily understand why they attracted so many enthusiasts. That's why the brand consistently won most of the comparison-tests in the auto magazines. That has recently changed somewhat, though, with the advent of the electric power steering and more mainstream chassis design. To some extent, Mercedes and Audi have moved into their former position....and, yes, even, to an extent, Lexus, since that is the thread-topic.
05-01-17, 06:43 AM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
I think the reason why they haven't offered free maintenance is dealers don't want it. Lexus dealers have the highest per franchise profitability in the business, and if Lexus were paying them for service they wouldn't pay what we pay as customers. Toyota has free maintenance, but Lexus doesn't.
As for your other points, it's clear all you care about is power. If so Lexus will never be your brand, nor has it ever been. Modern Lexus cars are full of what you say you want, passion, precision, the new platforms are excellent and very stiff. The cars are better to drive than they have ever been by a mile. But, what impresses you is horsepower. Not the brand for you.
Personally I don't care about having more power than anybody else.
As for your other points, it's clear all you care about is power. If so Lexus will never be your brand, nor has it ever been. Modern Lexus cars are full of what you say you want, passion, precision, the new platforms are excellent and very stiff. The cars are better to drive than they have ever been by a mile. But, what impresses you is horsepower. Not the brand for you.
Personally I don't care about having more power than anybody else.
05-01-17, 06:49 AM
#66
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
You state (correctly) that the 2000-2006 time frame was a very good one for Lexus, and I agree......I myself owned a 2001 IS300 (one of the comparably few bright-yellow ones produced). After that, though, Lexus started yielding ground to the Germans, not because of sport-orientation or "character" issues, but because of cost-cutting and a general use of more lightweight parts in their vehicles. First, you can blame the bean-counters, more than the stylists or those who design power trains or suspensions, for the German gains. Second, when Lexus DID start to place emphasis on sportiness, it drove many of their potential buyers out of the GS and into the ES....the reason for the ES's huge popularity. The ES still drives in a manner that originally made Lexus famous...smooth, quiet, and refined, though the 5th and 6th-generation ES models were not as cushy as the superb 4Gen model, and lacked the beautiful wood trim inside.
As Lexus Service-Advisor who supervised the service and repairs on these vehicles for a living, you are (or were) probably in a good position to see for yourself, first-hand, how the solidness of the construction of the average Lexus model got lighter and less-solid after that 2006 time-frame you refer to. IMO, look no further than that to (primarily) explain why the Germans caught up. An added factor was that the increasing stiffness of the tires and suspensions in post-2006 models drove a number of Lexus loyalists either into the ES or away from the brand, period. Cadillac, when they did the same thing and tried turn their products into BMWs, also suffered some of that customer-drain.
(An exception, though, are the Lexus GX and LX truck-based SUVs.....they were originally built like tanks, and, to an extent, still are. But, compared to the huge-selling ES and RX, they are basically just niche-vehicles).
As Lexus Service-Advisor who supervised the service and repairs on these vehicles for a living, you are (or were) probably in a good position to see for yourself, first-hand, how the solidness of the construction of the average Lexus model got lighter and less-solid after that 2006 time-frame you refer to. IMO, look no further than that to (primarily) explain why the Germans caught up. An added factor was that the increasing stiffness of the tires and suspensions in post-2006 models drove a number of Lexus loyalists either into the ES or away from the brand, period. Cadillac, when they did the same thing and tried turn their products into BMWs, also suffered some of that customer-drain.
(An exception, though, are the Lexus GX and LX truck-based SUVs.....they were originally built like tanks, and, to an extent, still are. But, compared to the huge-selling ES and RX, they are basically just niche-vehicles).
05-01-17, 06:58 AM
#67
Pole Position
I think we would have to agree that Lexus is in a transition period with pretty much a full line up of stopgap products. The LC will be the first car to represent the new Lexus followed by the LS and ES presumably. The recent drive towards sportiness unmasked a lot of shortcomings in Lexus products. As Mmarshall pointed out, Lexus products have become less solid over the last 10 yrs and fitting stiffer suspensions and bigger tires has made NVH suffer with all the shuddering and creaks and rattles developing.
Also, for Lexus to move up in the luxury scale they will need to abandon platform sharing and Lexus acknowledges as much, however, the next ES, UX, NX, RX will mostly likely be based on the Toyota TNGA. So business as usual. I'm hoping the new "RX-L" will be based on the new TNGA platform at a minimum instead of the current RX platform.
Also, for Lexus to move up in the luxury scale they will need to abandon platform sharing and Lexus acknowledges as much, however, the next ES, UX, NX, RX will mostly likely be based on the Toyota TNGA. So business as usual. I'm hoping the new "RX-L" will be based on the new TNGA platform at a minimum instead of the current RX platform.
05-01-17, 07:09 AM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
I haven't owned a BMW, but, in my experience over many reviews and test-drives, for years, BMW, until recently, actually deserved the "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan....it wasn't just advertising. Their hydraulic power-steering systems and chassis/suspension engineering was, IMO, virtually unmatched, especially for serious drivers looking for tactile feed-back from the systems. Though they were not the cars for me, I could easily understand why they attracted so many enthusiasts. That's why the brand consistently won most of the comparison-tests in the auto magazines. That has recently changed somewhat, though, with the advent of the electric power steering and more mainstream chassis design. To some extent, Mercedes and Audi have moved into their former position....and, yes, even, to an extent, Lexus, since that is the thread-topic.
05-01-17, 07:12 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
btw when is the next GS due, because as a model, that seems to be in a sweet spot, where it could be luxury, it could be peformance, etc. (look at the 1998 model--sweet). But imho it's time for some real performance, not pseudo....I think Tahara Aichi can do whatever it wants, it's all about cost and profit and who the market is. Why not have a revolution like Toyota did in the 1980's when it created Lexus?
05-01-17, 07:21 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Though Lexus is still mum about it, right now, there doesn't seem to be any guarantee that there will be a next-generation Lexus GS at all.
https://www.autodealer.co.za/Motorin...o-GS-2920.html
https://www.autodealer.co.za/Motorin...o-GS-2920.html
05-01-17, 07:54 AM
#71
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
To me, the artisan and hand-crafting techniques helped to make Lexus unique; from the early days when the paint jobs were hand-rubbed to remove orange peel, to today's cut-glass door panels with beautiful pleated/creased fabric. Although largely produced by robots, the human artwork and hand-crafting appeal to me. The layered steering wheels, piano-wood consoles, and newly pleated door panels with cut glass make a LEXUS, a LEXUS.
05-01-17, 08:00 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
To me, the artisan and hand-crafting techniques helped to make Lexus unique; from the early days when the paint jobs were hand-rubbed to remove orange peel, to today's cut-glass door panels with beautiful pleated/creased fabric. Although largely produced by robots, the human artwork and hand-crafting appeal to me. The layered steering wheels, piano-wood consoles, and newly pleated door panels with cut glass make a LEXUS, a LEXUS.
05-01-17, 08:04 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
To me, the artisan and hand-crafting techniques helped to make Lexus unique; from the early days when the paint jobs were hand-rubbed to remove orange peel, to today's cut-glass door panels with beautiful pleated/creased fabric. Although largely produced by robots, the human artwork and hand-crafting appeal to me. The layered steering wheels, piano-wood consoles, and newly pleated door panels with cut glass make a LEXUS, a LEXUS.
05-01-17, 08:09 AM
#74
I think the reason why they haven't offered free maintenance is dealers don't want it. Lexus dealers have the highest per franchise profitability in the business, and if Lexus were paying them for service they wouldn't pay what we pay as customers. Toyota has free maintenance, but Lexus doesn't.
As for your other points, it's clear all you care about is power. If so Lexus will never be your brand, nor has it ever been. Modern Lexus cars are full of what you say you want, passion, precision, the new platforms are excellent and very stiff. The cars are better to drive than they have ever been by a mile. But, what impresses you is horsepower. Not the brand for you.
Personally I don't care about having more power than anybody else.
As for your other points, it's clear all you care about is power. If so Lexus will never be your brand, nor has it ever been. Modern Lexus cars are full of what you say you want, passion, precision, the new platforms are excellent and very stiff. The cars are better to drive than they have ever been by a mile. But, what impresses you is horsepower. Not the brand for you.
Personally I don't care about having more power than anybody else.
Power and Lexus aren't symbiotic in modern day's composition (nor has it ever really been...), but that's not the selling point of Lexus. It's a mixture of comfort, affordability, and luxury all in one convenient access package for regular folks. Certain people do not like European brands for whatever reason, and Lexus basically fills that market segment where Infinity and Acura drop the ball (should I include Hyundai now though?). I don't expect Lexus to replace any of its competitors, but I do like knowing that there's a backup choice here if I don't end up liking the new lineups from MBZ or BMW or Audi.
EDIT: LFA is not up for discussion in this post.
05-01-17, 08:10 AM
#75
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
btw when is the next GS due, because as a model, that seems to be in a sweet spot, where it could be luxury, it could be peformance, etc. (look at the 1998 model--sweet). But imho it's time for some real performance, not pseudo....I think Tahara Aichi can do whatever it wants, it's all about cost and profit and who the market is. Why not have a revolution like Toyota did in the 1980's when it created Lexus?