And I have the right to disagree with you. This is a discussion forum.

And I suggested that if you go and actually take a look at some of the current products you might not feel that way. I hadn't done that in a long time and when I did I realized things are not as bad as I thought they were. I don't think you have even sat in any of these vehicles you say suck.

When you say "Lexus sucks ***" on a Lexus forum thems fightin' words. They absolutely do not "suck ***" they are just mainstream + vs luxury vehicles now.

I would agree with all of this. The brand is just different now, but if you look at them for what they are...they aren't bad.

Issue with the Mazda vs the Lexus is you are trading technology and comfort. The Mazda CX90 for instance doesn't ride as well as a TX nor is it anywhere as spacious inside nor does it have as good a technology suite. Same is true of a CX70 vs an RX. The Mazda is a better "enthusiasts car" because of its RWD basis and better engines etc, but its not as good a family car. It all depends on what you're looking for.

 

I know, but it's the exact same every time. I've tried to change the subject twice now, there's just some things you and I won't see eye to eye on ever.

Now the guy who doesn't even drive a Lexus because guess what -- they don't appeal to him like they used to -- is telling me to watch it on a Lexus forum? I own two.

 

We don't have to, we present our opinions and discuss them. That's the whole point.

Not telling you to "watch" anything, just saying when you say the vehicle the forum is based on sucks...you're going to have people disagree.

I am currently shopping for a car and a Lexus is at the top of my list...I'm just saying, if you would go and look at the current Lexus models and compare them with what they should be compared to nowadays...they are good products. They aren't "Tier 1" products anymore...

 

Mazda doesn't have anything TX sized, but their small SUVs I think are better looking than whatever little Subaru looking Lexus SUVs are. I also think Lexus tech is awful, they went from the stupid mouse to greasy touch screens, and Mazda wisely copied BMW's elegant idrive ****, still have analog gauges in many models, traditional shifters, and their suspension setups are generally have more zoom compared to Toyota/Lexus.

 

That's just frankly depressing, that's dramatic but I mean...in the car world. Even that first ES300 was a stunningly good car. I remember them being all over the place. They weren't LS400 smooth but oh, they were properly silky.

But they are rolling in the black doing very well according to you and others and, well they're running a business. I guess I understand.

 

Have you tried the latest Lexus UI? It’s excellent and much better than Mazda. Mazda has the control wheel but their UI is awful. Worst in the business.

If you compare a Mazda to an NX or RX, the Lexuses are a cut above for sure. Remember too the CX5 and CX50 are FWD transverse with 4 cyl engines too

And the new Mazda CX5 has no wheel, all touchscreen and virtual gauges.

It’s a shame for sure, but it is what it is. Doesn’t make their cars garbage. They’re still very smooth and refined, I was seriously impressed by that TX500h.

 

Not extensively, no, I haven't much experience with either.

 

Mazda's is seriously terrible, and the new Lexus one is very good. Mazda also has no lane centering or self driving and Lexus' is very good.

 

I hope you are right. I'll probably get a GX550 in the future, I know the old GX460 interface was beyond lousy.

 

The last two years of the GX460's ui was perfect. It's simple and easy to use. I still find it strange they switched out the ui for the last 2 yrs of the model, but Lexus will do Lexus things.

 

Did you ever think about why cars are the way they are now? When Lexus first came out, there were less regulations and cars were simpler and easier to manufacture. Car companies in general can spend more on the car itself instead of putting all these Safety nonSense 5.0 crap in most of which gets turned off by the driver anyways. Also, customer tastes and preferences have changed. More competition in the marketplace. The world in general is just different. "Luxury" no longer means the same thing back then and all the car manufacturers can emulate the formula if they choose to and have various levels of sales success. Heck even Hyundai makes a luxury car now. I can safely say that even MB and BMW are vastly different than the luxury barges they made back in the days.

Lexus can no longer invest heavily into the LS and ES simply because the market has changed. The RX is the new ES and the LX is the new LS. Simply being the quietest and smoothest running cars no longer cut it. Anyone can slap leather, extra sound deadening and a soft suspension onto a car and call it luxury. You can complain about it until the cows come home but its the reality now and this goes for all the car manufacturers. Even Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche have SUVs in their lineup to survive.

 

Well the Mazda system with the **** is not really intuitive at all. I had a 3-Series with iDrive and my son has a CX-30; Mazda didn't "copy" iDrive....they "tried" to copy it, but the execution is just bad.

And Mazda has ditched the central **** in the new CX-5.

 

I'm aware of all this. I just mean, Lexus popped out one class-leading vehicle after another at one point.

 

So as an example, we went and looked at cars today. We went to Carmax which is great for looking at a wide variety of cars that are all unlocked with no annoying salespeople.

They had a great assortment, they had a GLS, an MDX, Tahoes, CX-90s, X7 and a TX. My wife's favorite was the TX, and it was a very low package TX350. Her second favorite was the GLS, but the packaging and overall space in the TX coupled with the fact that it comes in a PHEV for her would be the winner even if we were paying the same payment as the $15,000 more expensive GLS. So...hard to say Lexus doesn't have a winner there.

 

It is nice that they don't haggle you but gosh Carmax prices are high.

You're not leasing? Or does Carmax do it?