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Not even close to the same thing. Just compare pics.
Now I’ll literally die 5 times before dumping the best car they ever made.
Those vents on the 460 look cheap as hell. And they don’t oscillate lol.
Plastic is plastic. You can't complain one car has a part thats plastic when the other car has the same part that is also plastic. Vents are all the same, they just don't oscellate.
The market for flagship luxury sedans is dead as sad as that is to me. It just doesn't make financial sense for Lexus to keep the LS around when they're selling at the numbers they have been for years.
Back in the day, a large luxury sedan was the pinnacle of success for execs, and something to buy in retirement for the older generation. Today, it's an SUV, even for the older generation. And not necessarily a large luxury SUV - people are buying the RX in droves, which has already been mentioned. A highly optioned RX now costs beyond what an LS historically started at (all the way through the LS460). And the LS has virtually zero options that can differentiate it from the RX and many other SUVs in this category. So why buy an LS? That's where Lexus has lost the market. There's no reason to buy the LS beyond it being the LS, which doesn't resonate with anyone except the few of us on here who appreciate it.
The market for flagship luxury sedans is dead as sad as that is to me. It just doesn't make financial sense for Lexus to keep the LS around when they're selling at the numbers they have been for years.
Back in the day, a large luxury sedan was the pinnacle of success for execs, and something to buy in retirement for the older generation. Today, it's an SUV, even for the older generation. And not necessarily a large luxury SUV - people are buying the RX in droves, which has already been mentioned. A highly optioned RX now costs beyond what an LS historically started at (all the way through the LS460). And the LS has virtually zero options that can differentiate it from the RX and many other SUVs in this category. So why buy an LS? That's where Lexus has lost the market. There's no reason to buy the LS beyond it being the LS, which doesn't resonate with anyone except the few of us on here who appreciate it.
I think it's the G wagon now. But I'm not sure if they enjoy the car the same way as they did with large luxury sedans like LS.
A highly optioned RX now costs beyond what an LS historically started at (all the way through the LS460).
This isn't the case when you take inflation into account.
And the LS has virtually zero options that can differentiate it from the RX and many other SUVs in this category. So why buy an LS? That's where Lexus has lost the market. There's no reason to buy the LS beyond it being the LS, which doesn't resonate with anyone except the few of us on here who appreciate it.
The difference is in build quality, ride and drive quality and performance.
This isn't the case when you take inflation into account.
The difference is in build quality, ride and drive quality and performance.
I realize both of these things, but the average consumer does not value them enough to justify the price difference. The Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7 Series still sell fairly well b/c they carry a certain status symbol that the LS never achieved. People bought the LS for value, quality and comfort - all of which (arguably) diminished over the years. I would like to think Lexus shouldn't have given up on the LS, but seeing what they're doing with the ES makes me glad they didn't attempt another generation. It likely would have been an abomination to the name.
Year 2000 LS400 is the best LS. More elegant than the LS430 or 460. Best interior quality of all the LS. Most refined version of the 4L v8 with vvti
My 1998 Lexus LS400 was a great car, but I preferred my 1998 GS400 to it (probably an age thing at the time). I mentioned to my service advisor that I was prepping to sell the LS and that same day a mechanic at Lexus bought it from me. I bet it's still on the road, as it had less than 100K when I sold it back in 2016.
The Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7 Series still sell fairly well b/c they carry a certain status symbol that the LS never achieved. .
I just don't agree with this. The first ones up until 2007 really were just that good and competitive. Sent MB and others scrambling back to the chalk boards. LS430 was even better. These cars routinely handily won first place in comparison tests.
And @SW17LS that plastic looks terrible in that 460, there is way too much of it around the clock and it's not the same material. The wood and leather and carpet feels cheaper inside those as well. They did do a good job freshening it for 2013, though.
Year 2000 LS400 is the best LS. More elegant than the LS430 or 460. Best interior quality of all the LS. Most refined version of the 4L v8 with vvti.
Yep.....in general, 1998-2005 were clearly the best years for Lexus products in general. IMO that is when they reached their peak...and the bean-counters have been downgrading them ever since, a little more with each redesign.
I just don't agree with this. The first ones up until 2007 really were just that good and competitive. Sent MB and others scrambling back to the chalk boards. LS430 was even better. These cars routinely handily won first place in comparison tests.
And @SW17LS that plastic looks terrible in that 460, there is way too much of it around the clock and it's not the same material. The wood and leather and carpet feels cheaper inside those as well. They did do a good job freshening it for 2013, though.
LS never held the same status as the S Class or 7 Series. When my Dad had the 400 and 430 new the S Class and 7 Series would have been an upgrade, and when I had my 460s they would have been an upgrade too. The appeal of the LS has always included its lower price, and the price was a part of why they won. Had the S or 7 been the same price as the LS, we would never have gotten any of our LSs.
To me, plastic is plastic. Its not like they replaced wood with plastic. The 460's interior is way more attractive than the 430 in every generation IMO.
I realize both of these things, but the average consumer does not value them enough to justify the price difference. The Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7 Series still sell fairly well b/c they carry a certain status symbol that the LS never achieved. People bought the LS for value, quality and comfort - all of which (arguably) diminished over the years. I would like to think Lexus shouldn't have given up on the LS, but seeing what they're doing with the ES makes me glad they didn't attempt another generation. It likely would have been an abomination to the name.
Thats right. The average consumer does not care. Unless performance becomes a differentiator, the average consumer prefers the big, bulky, spacious, heavy SUV that nowadays has all the interior quality and luxury goodies as the traditional luxury sedan. Of course an SUV, no matter what electronic aids and engineered controls are put in place, cannot match the performance of a low centre of gravity vehicle, but that's inconsequential to 99% of the car buying public.
SUVs do have benefits over sedans. As a sedan driver I can tell you what makes me want to move to an SUV:
1. Higher driving position
2. Easier to get in and out of
3. More versatility for carrying cargo and people
4. The ability to go anywhere in any weather
5. You win all pissing contests
6. They are all very powerful
7. They look better than ever
8. The luxury is insane, Escalade doors now open and shut by themselves, like a Rolls.
Other than LC500 I'll never not buy a huge SUV again. But I anticipate the '22 to last 20 years.
