As mentioned earlier in this long thread, this is a phenomena that was evident prior to the fix in my case, but cleared up later after it was repaired. As I speculated afterwards, I feel that the upward window travel within the door frame is excessive in some cases, leading to a breach in the seal (and the slight window tap restores the seal). This was reinforced in my mind by the loud cracking sound as the window was opened. I think this is a weak design area by Lexus. Other manufacturers like MB have a completely different window configuration that imho remedies these discrepancies.

 

Having experience with this annoyance in 2 ES350 unresolved, I'd say you are on to something listing the source areas you have. No TSIB has been issued for ES owners with this, so at least LS owners can be happy they have one and as frustrating as it may be to make multiple trips to service to get it resolved that is a good thing effort is being made. I think it reasonable for a tech here to maybe require several efforts however frustrating to an owner that may be.

Here are areas that can cause this, adjustments to these areas diminish it and this excludes that in any way actually attributed to a mirror.

PDI rubber plugs: If any one is missing or upside down or not properly set of roughly 5 or 6 each side of vehicle there WILL be more wind noise and more road noise present, as to road noise the most noticeable would be tire on pavement noise or hearing passing vehicles more than one would think should be able when any one or more are left off vehicle, or as above, at PDI.

Door alignment: If driver door or passenger door is even slightly out of alignment to each other this WILL create more wind noise and surrounding noise an owner would list as coming from window as a source somewhere near their head.

Addition of "felt" to bolster gasket diminishes it, though I believe best conveyance of real repair I have ever seen was that by Static of ES forum listing what his dealer did which permitted more leverage from bottom of window glass forcing glass to better contact gasket and he was very happy with that result.

Lastly, when RJM, others post on attitude from Lexus, they aren't kidding, that is what allows them to shoot themselves in the foot and delays repairs risking loss of an otherwise happy Lexus loyalist who ends up instead very PO'd by the attitude and moves on.

On the whole wind noise certainly is within the means of Lexus to address and should afford many happy LS owners.

 

Sorry to keep chiming in, but I think there are some possible misconceptions going on here.

Jimm - I don't think we really know the extent of the problem. You say "thousands", but all we really know is that of this rather small owner community, only a small percentage report the problem. Therefore, it may not be as widespread as some think.

Maurice and others - I'm not sure it's fair to compare the LS460 with your LS430. It seems to me Lexus made several aspects of this car "noisier" than previous models (and I admit I'm going way back to the two LS400's I owned a few years back). For example, engine noise is much more apparent in my 460, and I understand that was done to satisfy owners and critics who felt there was insufficient engine sound feedback. Ditto for road noise. Too many complained the car was TOO quiet.

In addition, changes in design often have consequences. One of them could be that wind turbulence may be enhanced a bit. But there's no "rule" that says this car has to be as quiet as the previous model. IOW, the mere fact you can hear the turbulence more doesn't mean it's a flaw, or error, or design shortcoming. It may just be a tradeoff for having a different shape.

I'm not dissing any of you guys who have legitimate wind noise (whistling, roaring, etc.). I just have to wonder if some of us aren't maybe judging this car by unfair standards and not letting it stand on its own merits.

Just my 2 cents.

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Mike - I don’t mean to question you .. BUT ..

“Too many complained the car was TOO quiet?” That is really hard to
believe ... in a luxury car. And - wanting to hear the engine and road
noise .. ?

I want to hear the engine in my C6, but, when I get in my Mercedes,
that’s a whole ‘nother story! As it was in my super quiet DTS.

Big Jimm

 

Big Jimm, all you had to do was read the automotive press ... time after time, they complained the LS had "too little soul", and "gave no aural or tactile feedback to indicate you were driving, or even that the engine was running". They wanted to hear the engine growl a little, and to get some road feel (and yes, a little sound) so they could feel less isolated from the road.

And they claimed customers felt the same way. Apparently they did, since I've seen it reported in road tests and other write-ups that Lexus dialed in a little more engine noise and more "road feel" in this model. They also firmed up the suspension a tad, again in response to requests for a little more driving feedback.

Luxury car owners want a quiet ride, but in this segment, they're apparently not quite ready to go as tomb-like as a Rolls Silver Cloud.

(Oh, and it's okay to question me. )

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mmm. This is not typical of Lexus. A friend of mine has the LS and is not experiencing this problem. Perhaps you got an early model production unit?

 

Well ok Mike. But, that just means that everyone else is wrong but ME!
(Just kidding.)

However ... I do feel that sometimes people want to make ONE car an
“all-in-one” car. Ie: a luxury car, sports car, cruiser, etc, etc. Whereas
my choice would be for more clear separation, which obviously means
owning a luxury car AND a sports car, for example.

But, that’s just me. I respect the millions who disagree with me.

Big Jimm

 

Well... I just got a call from a dealer and I'm very disappointed. The FSR came out to inspect my vehicle and has determined that the wind noise is at acceptable level and they are not doing anything about it. I have mentioned that the new LS 460L that I test drove last week does not have this issue and my car does and he had no response for me. He said that they are looking at redesigning the mirrors and such but there is no solution at this time. His response was that this car is much quieter than ls 430 and I'm hearing the noise only because this car is so quite. I'm not sure what to do at this point as I don't want to loose money on turning this car back in because it's a lease. I guess I'm stuck with it for now.

 

Very disappointing report. It echos the reports of guys on the E350 forums trying to get their non-responding transmissions fixed. Lexus denies (or ignores) the problem in many cases.

 

The above is the EXACT response I got about wind noise ES 350, cabin is now quieter so you are hearing more, blah, blah and from an FTS as well in response to my how come question.

Here is what you do: Take a break from it for a couple of weeks and then call another dealer, ask to speak to the service manager and tell him or her your complete story and ask is there not anything they can do or at least confirm for you that the TSIB already performed was done right. The FTS sent for your car might have just assumed it was done correctly and gave you the cabin is quieter story not knowing what else to do with you.

There ARE some wonderful Lexus dealers out there who will give it another go for you, it's entirely possible they did not do the initial TSIB correctly or there are more experienced techs in other service departments.

 

Just to recap, a review of your case:

...and then the FSR decided not to do anything about it.

Clearly this has taken a lot of effort and stress on your part, I sympathize with the difficulty. Definitely something was up here, your 460 L clearly did not respond well to the fix. I am wondering...1) is it the same FSR that reviewed the car both times? Is that FSR the same one who performed the (partly effective) second repair to fix up the dealership's 'fix' (which only made it worse)? 2) is it possible that the repeated repairs have caused loose parts, seals etc. or some other form of misalignment that results in the problem recurring? 3) how much change in the noise level has been since the beginning, the first repair, second, and now? 4) Does it work, as you mentioned before, pulling down the window a bit? 5) How much longer is your lease?

There is data indicating that at some points, the LS 460 is quieter than the LS 430, but also it's been reported that the engineers added back a bit more engine noise too, so it depends on when you are listening for noise. I really hope you can find an arrangement which sets your mind at ease regarding this car. Maybe in the future if it is a mirror fix that might work, but clearly that is a while from now. I suppose, the 460L you test drove was a 2008, and that noise level is what you are looking for...?

Anyhow, I'd like to echo ES350Bob's advice. Take a break from the dealership for a while, and when you're ready, it might be a good idea to try another dealership.

 

A MIRROR Fix??

This is so unbelievable! With all of their scientific Wind Tunnels, etc,
Lexus engineers KNOW NOW - and had to have known from the first
complaint - whether or not the mirrors are causing it!

Lexus is a great company and the LS is mostly a great car. BUT, the
tired, repetitious and evasive answers they’re reciting is a clear stall
which would be maddening to anyone with an expensive new car.

Big Jimm

 

Thanks for the support guys....
1. I'm not sure if this was the same FSR as I have not seen him in person. It was all done over the phone and I honestly didn't even think about that. I was told if I have any other questions to speak to SM (service manager).
2. I think it's very much possible that the last repair that was done to my car to correct this issue was not done properly or something is getting loose.
3. Comparing the wind noise, I feel that I'm back to my original problem when I first reported it.
4. Lowering the window just a bit does not change anything. It only did after the first time they tried to fix it.
5. Unfortunately, I was confused before. I have a second car that is also a lease and that one is 2 years, but this one is a 3 years lease, so I have 22 months left on it. Honestly, after what I've seen on the market, if it wasn't for this wind noise, I would seriously consider buying this car at the end of a lease. Now, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

I'm a bit puzzled at what to do next. 2 dealerships that are close to my house are both owned by the same guy. Next dealer is about 50 miles away and that is very inconvenient. But looks like I'll have to make that trip soon as this noise issue is driving me crazy. I had an ES350 as a loaner, while dealer was looking at my car, and it had less wind noise then my 460. That's just crazy!!!

 

Why not invoke the Lemon Law in your state? I would almost bet that Lexus will give you a different car if you do so. Use all of the posts here as additional evidence (beyond the actual noise itself) as proof of your problem. Lexus doesn't want bad press...they'll cave if you push.

 

I would love to, but how would I prove that the wind noise is louder then it should be if Lexus says it's at the acceptable level... There is no measuring stick. They could use a DECIBEL (dB) METER to measure the noise, but I haven't seen the numbers for the acceptable levels yet. If anybody has those, I would appreciate it if you share that info with us. In addition to that, the environment where the noise is measured by the dB meter must be very specific. If it's raining outside, then noise will be different, or if it's too windy ouside... and all of this makes it very difficult to prove either way.