steering question
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,293
Likes: 64
From: Toronto, Canada
steering question
I have had my 2005 LS430 for 10 days, and have a question about the steering .... When I bought the car, the tires were worn out so I immediately replaced the 245/45/18/ tires with 225/55/18 Hankook H727 95T tire for a smooth comfortable ride. Went and got a 4 wheel alignment.
The car does not seem to stay where is pointed. While there is no pull to the left of the right, I need to do a lot of small corrections to keep the car in it's lane. To make this difficult, the car does not respond to steering input quickly : it seems the first 1/2 inch I turn the steering wheel does not move the car much. So the end result is a floating on the road that is not easily corrected. I have the tire pressure now at 32 psi .... when the tire pressure was at 36 is was way worse
The car is otherwise perfect, so I am wondering what to do ?
Get the alignment checked ? get the tires checked ? take it in to Lexus ?
Any assistance would be appreciated.
The car does not seem to stay where is pointed. While there is no pull to the left of the right, I need to do a lot of small corrections to keep the car in it's lane. To make this difficult, the car does not respond to steering input quickly : it seems the first 1/2 inch I turn the steering wheel does not move the car much. So the end result is a floating on the road that is not easily corrected. I have the tire pressure now at 32 psi .... when the tire pressure was at 36 is was way worse
The car is otherwise perfect, so I am wondering what to do ?
Get the alignment checked ? get the tires checked ? take it in to Lexus ?
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Our LS's have very light sterring. That is pretty much how this car was designed. Remember, there is nothing sporty about this car. This is basically the Japanese version of the Lincoln Towncar my friend with a few minor adjustments. By the way, i have the hancooks ventus v4's on my ride also and im not very pleased with how they ride. Very nosy(although they got very quiet now that they are almost done. Strange), and kinda stiff riding. Replacing with the Primacys very shortly.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,293
Likes: 64
From: Toronto, Canada
The tires I mentioned are by far the smoothest, and quietest tire I have ever been on. ( Maybe this is also the car ? ) These Hankooks are top rated on both TireRack and Consumer Reports.
If what you said proves to be true, and this problem can't be "fixed" .... I could have very possibly bought the wrong car ! I may have been seduced by the comfort and luxury of the LS.
If what you said proves to be true, and this problem can't be "fixed" .... I could have very possibly bought the wrong car ! I may have been seduced by the comfort and luxury of the LS.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 454
Likes: 8
From: KS/MO
Mmm.. well I can honestly say that I do not have any "vagueness" in my steering on center. No, it's certainly no BMW in terms of steering FEEL, but it certainly stays where I put it. The last car I drove that did what you are describing was a 2010 Ford Focus loaner my room-mate had, and that is Typical of Fords and always has been. It is NOT Typical of any Lexus product I've ever driven.
I will say this, I do get some "wandering" related to the TIRES when they catch grooves in the pavement here in Missouri (Primacy MXV4). But on a clean slice of asphalt, the car tracks completely straight.
I will say this, I do get some "wandering" related to the TIRES when they catch grooves in the pavement here in Missouri (Primacy MXV4). But on a clean slice of asphalt, the car tracks completely straight.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,293
Likes: 64
From: Toronto, Canada
Mmm.. well I can honestly say that I do not have any "vagueness" in my steering on center. No, it's certainly no BMW in terms of steering FEEL, but it certainly stays where I put it. The last car I drove that did what you are describing was a 2010 Ford Focus loaner my room-mate had, and that is Typical of Fords and always has been. It is NOT Typical of any Lexus product I've ever driven.
I will say this, I do get some "wandering" related to the TIRES when they catch grooves in the pavement here in Missouri (Primacy MXV4). But on a clean slice of asphalt, the car tracks completely straight.
I will say this, I do get some "wandering" related to the TIRES when they catch grooves in the pavement here in Missouri (Primacy MXV4). But on a clean slice of asphalt, the car tracks completely straight.
I chose a taller and narrower tire was to eliminate this "wandering" wide tires experience in the catch grooves/uneven pavement.
Looking forward to what others think may be causing this ?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 4
From: MI
My car feels extremely stable at any speed, definitely a match to the 3 series in terms of straight line stability (I had an 07 E90 for a year). I am running stock dunlops and the configuration that came with the car when I bought it from a dealer. Who did the alignment? If it wasn't Lexus, then try getting Lexus to do one for you. I did notice that you tampered with the tire sizes. While the bigger sidewalls may give you a cushier ride, I have a feeling that the suspension was designed to work with the stock tire sizes. That may have messed things up a bit. I really don't think alignment is the issue here, as you have no tugging left or right. I think you need to go to OEM tire sizes and give that a try. Just my .02
CL Community Team
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,915
Likes: 227
From: Alabama
I'd have alignment check just to make sure toe in etc is within spec/range. Also have it put up on a lift and check to see if anything is loose on the wheels, front suspension, or steering components.
Also especially when mounting wheels its easy to get a wheel on just slightly cockeyed due to the hub centric design of the hubs/wheels and the minimal clearance involved (especially if wheel or hub is a little dirty or has some rust in that area). Make sure wheels are mounted absolutely true.
Also you did not post total miles on car but could bushings be worn out?
Also especially when mounting wheels its easy to get a wheel on just slightly cockeyed due to the hub centric design of the hubs/wheels and the minimal clearance involved (especially if wheel or hub is a little dirty or has some rust in that area). Make sure wheels are mounted absolutely true.
Also you did not post total miles on car but could bushings be worn out?
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Driver School Candidate
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: newyork
dear stu, I had a very similar problem. First of all the lexus dealer actually did the alignment 3 times and could not fix the problem. So after getting tired of them i went to a local alignment shop, a young kid technician corrected the problem first trial. Secondly there was still some form of floaty feeling which i believe is typical of the LS, mine is the ultra package with the air susp. and that made it alot more worse. However, I took off the air suspension in favour of some BC Racing Coilovers and 'walllaaah' problem solved, amazing handling. zero vagueness. braking, fuel economy, everything is improved. I am not suggesting that you do this but alot of the floating is part and parcel of the softness of the suspension.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,293
Likes: 64
From: Toronto, Canada
My car feels extremely stable at any speed, definitely a match to the 3 series in terms of straight line stability (I had an 07 E90 for a year). I am running stock dunlops and the configuration that came with the car when I bought it from a dealer. Who did the alignment? If it wasn't Lexus, then try getting Lexus to do one for you. I did notice that you tampered with the tire sizes. While the bigger sidewalls may give you a cushier ride, I have a feeling that the suspension was designed to work with the stock tire sizes. That may have messed things up a bit. I really don't think alignment is the issue here, as you have no tugging left or right. I think you need to go to OEM tire sizes and give that a try. Just my .02
I probably should not have done it, except I hate low profile tires.
I didn't buy tires at Lexus, and the alignment guys were good. They had some nice equipment anyway.
I need to choose a service shop - a Lexus dealer or an independant
I'd have alignment check just to make sure toe in etc is within spec/range. Also have it put up on a lift and check to see if anything is loose on the wheels, front suspension, or steering components.
Also especially when mounting wheels its easy to get a wheel on just slightly cockeyed due to the hub centric design of the hubs/wheels and the minimal clearance involved (especially if wheel or hub is a little dirty or has some rust in that area). Make sure wheels are mounted absolutely true.
Also you did not post total miles on car but could bushings be worn out?
Also especially when mounting wheels its easy to get a wheel on just slightly cockeyed due to the hub centric design of the hubs/wheels and the minimal clearance involved (especially if wheel or hub is a little dirty or has some rust in that area). Make sure wheels are mounted absolutely true.
Also you did not post total miles on car but could bushings be worn out?
The car has 48,000 miles ( 75,000 kilometers )
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 9
From: MA
Couple of suggestions Stu... Hopefully they gave you a before and after printout of the alignment specs when they performed the alignment. You can reference that and compare it to the Lexus preferred spec's to make sure they did it right. Also, sometimes putting a slight toe out near the outer limits of the Lexus spec can help to alleviate the problem.
I'd also consider putting the rears on the front and take it for a spin to see if that changes the problem at all. If it does change it, even a little to the better or worse, I'd be looking at an issue with the new tires.
I'd also consider putting the rears on the front and take it for a spin to see if that changes the problem at all. If it does change it, even a little to the better or worse, I'd be looking at an issue with the new tires.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,293
Likes: 64
From: Toronto, Canada
OK, got some new information after I took my car to the Lexus dealer this morning ....
They put my LS on their alignment machine. It showed that the camber of BOTH my rear tires was out of spec...they want $ 1,200 to replace both rear control arms and then realign the car to *see* if it fixes the wandering. The price is high I know, but they claim they must do this first before they do anything else, and have said it may not fix the problem .... true ?
$1,200 later and the car is realigned ( $ 120 ) they will *see* if it fixes the problem of the car does not seeming to stay where is pointed and drive straight without many small corrections to keep the car in it's lane. Does this seem reasonable ?
They also said the brand new Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires are not right for an LS - too hard a tire, and the LS steers better with Michelin Energy MXV4, a softer tire. true ? I asked him if he meant the Primacy tire, and he said no, Energy ... do they even still make that lousy old tire ?
Edit - Just called the dealer, I'm holding off on this costly repair until I hear from you guys. I will probably pay another shop to look at it and tell me what they think.
They put my LS on their alignment machine. It showed that the camber of BOTH my rear tires was out of spec...they want $ 1,200 to replace both rear control arms and then realign the car to *see* if it fixes the wandering. The price is high I know, but they claim they must do this first before they do anything else, and have said it may not fix the problem .... true ?
$1,200 later and the car is realigned ( $ 120 ) they will *see* if it fixes the problem of the car does not seeming to stay where is pointed and drive straight without many small corrections to keep the car in it's lane. Does this seem reasonable ?
They also said the brand new Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires are not right for an LS - too hard a tire, and the LS steers better with Michelin Energy MXV4, a softer tire. true ? I asked him if he meant the Primacy tire, and he said no, Energy ... do they even still make that lousy old tire ?
Edit - Just called the dealer, I'm holding off on this costly repair until I hear from you guys. I will probably pay another shop to look at it and tell me what they think.
Last edited by Stu; Oct 14, 2010 at 10:15 AM.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,875
Likes: 31
From: wi
I had the same thing happen to me with an Accord. My arm was always making small adjustments as I drove it it was tired as hell after a week. I made the mistake of putting a S rated tire on when it a T rated was the minimum OEM. They took the tires back they sat in the corner for a year as they tried to sell them and my problem went away instantly. Why did you get a T rated tire it calls for a H or even a V? Most places will not sell you a lower rated tire even if you ask for this very reason
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,810
Likes: 15
From: MI
- What did they way was wrong with both of the rear control arms?
- Avoid the Energy tires. I had them on my MKZ as factory tires. There were whiny and the wet traction was poor.
- You live if a large metro area and there should be some good suspension shops to look at your car.
- Avoid the Energy tires. I had them on my MKZ as factory tires. There were whiny and the wet traction was poor.
- You live if a large metro area and there should be some good suspension shops to look at your car.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 4
From: MI
Assuming all luxury cars are pretty similar in suspension design, a common forum topic about the 95 E34 530 I had was the control arms. This car was known to have a shimmy at 60mph +, which was fixed by new control arms and good tires. However, this does not sound like your problem. Assuming that the suspension design is similar in the LS, I would probably guess that new rear control won't do anything...other than relieve you of $1200. If anyone knows otherwise please feel free to correct me.