Okay guys. I can't even begin to search for the answer to this because I don't know the proper terminology. Here is the question. I have a 98 GS400 with the stock Pioneer system. I need to know whether the front door mids and tweeters have independent lines running from the amplifier or whether there is one line from the amp running to the door which then splits to feed the mid and the tweeter. Also, assuming there is one line feeding the door, is there a crossover for the mid and tweeter? If not, what's the setup? Thanks for any help that can be provided.

e-man

 

Yes, there is a crossover seperating the mids and tweeters but as far as the lines.....I can't remember. I'm pretty sure it was one wire going to the xover it's been a while. I'm sure someone will chime in soon. What are your plans?

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...378#post754378

 

Thanks Darius. My plan is pretty simple. I just want to upgrade the front door speakers to start and work my way up from there if I need to. I'd like to pop in a set of Boston Pro 5.25 (from what I've read, 6.5's are possible, but you really need to shoehorn them in there, and it sounds like too much trouble to me). Also, I don't want to upgrade the amp if I don't have to. Just a simple speaker swap at first. I think it should be a noticeable improvement over the stock Pioneer setup. I've done some searching on eBay, and the cheapest ones I could find were around $300 new. That seems a little pricey to me. I've heard the Pros, and they are a little "brighter" than the series just beneath them (I believe it's called the SL series), but that's okay. What do you think about all of this? You seem to be one of the resident experts, so if you tell me no, it's no. Thanks in advance.

e-man

 

No problem, e-man - You're welcome!! You will definitely hear a difference, even without upgrading the amp. One of the problems I found when upgrading the speakers was that they made the noise inherent in the Nakamichi system more noticable. It's light, but it drove me crazy.

My suggestion is to go ahead and save for the 6.5" upgrade.

Reasons:
1.) You will have to cut the shape out of MDF anyway, whether the hole is for a 5.25" or a 6.5" speaker, the outer diameter will be the same. Have you seen my install? My speakers are exactly 2" deep (http://www.polkaudio.com/car/specs.php?name=db6500) and there is plenty of room for the window.

2.) You want the midbass and bass to come from the front or to be non-directional. You can only achieve this if your midrange drivers can go low enough (60hz) to balance out the sound. If in the future you upgrade your head unit or add a crossover/EQ, you'll be able to send the frequencies to specific speakers and set their distance from the listening position. By adding midrange drivers that can go low, you prevent the problem of having all of the bass sound like its in the trunk and instead, have it match the rest of the instruments .

Boston Accoustics are a good choice. I just heard them for the first time a couple months ago! I don't know what your budget is but $300.00 is kinda steep, I just searched eBay too and found the same thing you did; A brand new set of Boston Pro 6.5's are $300 plus shipping. If you like PolkAudio, they run a little less. Polk MOMO 6.5" brand new for 175.00 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...716314027&rd=1).

 

Thanks, Darius. I take it that the 6.5 midrange drivers can go "lower" than 5.25s. Are all 6.5s 2 inches deep or only the Polks. I seem to think that the Boston 6.5s are around 3 inches deep, which probably won't allow the windows to open/close, right?

 

You're right, most 6.5's are deeper than 2". But you will be top-mounting them on 1/4 - 1/2" MDF so that will give you a little more room.

I just went to Boston Accoustics.com and checked the mounting depth of the Pro 60, they are 2 3/8" deep - You're safe http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...?ProductID=296

The spec sheet says that they are 3ohm speakers though. You will be running them at 4 ohms, right?

 

Okay. This is the point where things start to go over my head. I know absolutely nothing about ohms. I thought the stock front door speakers are 2 ohm, but I wasn't really sure what that meant or the implications of running a speaker at a different ohm rating. Here's the thing. You (along with Percy and Engin-ear) seem to be by far the most knowledgeable audio experts on CL. If you tell me to go with Boston Pro 6.5s up front, I'd just go and do it. Tweeter will be doing the install (I thought about doing it myself, but I'll probably screw it up and I want to be able to go back to someone if the job isn't just right). I would prefer to go 6.5 over 5.25, because I believe down the road, if I ever change the amp or decide to do further upgrades, I will be better off. Also, I think there will be a much more noticeable difference in the fullness of the sound with 6.5s over 5.25. I was just concerned that the 6.5s would be a pain to install because there wouldn't be enough clearance with the window. However, if you say it can be done, I'll let the Tweeter installer know that and what he has to do to get them to fit. By the way, yes, I have reviewed your install page (very, very helpful). It's one of "my favorites" in Internet Explorer.

So, bottom line, will I be okay with Boston Pro 6.5s upfront (which are 3 ohms as opposed to 2 or 4)? If so, I'll probably go ahead with it.

By the way, I know that you like Polk, and I compared them to the Bostons. Not much difference there. The Tweeter guy told me though that for my taste in music (which is almost exclusively FM radio -- basically classic rock, lite, and some popular stuff), the Bostons were a better all around speaker for what I was looking for.

Darius, thanks for taking such an interest in this. It really helps me out immensely and is probably saving me from making many mistakes.

e-man

 

Good decision to upgrade to the 6.5" You're right, the sound will be fuller with the larger speakers.

I don't know the impedence of the Pioneer speakers but the Nak speakers are 4ohm (https://www.clublexus.com/gallery/da...5DSC05082.jpeg).

As far as how to determine whether 3ohm speakers will work with the Pioneer head unit/amp, we have to wait for someone with more experience to chime in. Sorry I couldn't help you with that one. I did a quick search online, but it appears that 3 ohms speakers are fairly new, not too much info. I am guessing that they will work fine on a 4 ohm setup and that they are "3 ohm stable".

You may want to PM Percy or Engin-ear; they answered a lot of my questions when I was setting up my install.

 

Thanks Darius. The interesting thing is that the 6.5 Boston Pros are not much more money (if at all) than the 5.25s. Here's one more question. In describing the difference between the Boston Pro series and the SL series, the Tweeter salesperson said that the SL series had a silk domed tweeter and the Pro series had an aluminum dome tweeter. The result, he said, was that the Pro had a brighter, more metallic sound whereas the SL series had a softer, more muted sound. Does this sound right? If this is the only difference, do I even need the pro series? The reason I ask is because the SL series is considerably cheaper.

 

Yes, the salesperson is correct.

I am a fan of silk dome tweeters. Before I started on the car's audio, I was auditioning speakers for the home theater. I was torn between Infinity and PolkAudio for the same reasons. The Infinity seemed brighter and the Polk smoother. It was the RS series back then that Infinity was using Aluminum and Polk was using Silk. I've been a fan of the silk tweeter since. However, I've read reviews that if you don't use an amp (with the Polks) that the highs tend to get really harsh. I only have that problem on poorly ripped MP3s.

As far as the upgrade, I audition the MOMO series and the db Series and they sounded so much the same that I went with the db Series and saved almost $100.00. Looks like you'll have the same experience with the SL's versus the PRO's.

Darius

 

I feel the same way. I listened to both the SL and the Pros, side by side, alternating from one to the other, and I couldn't hear enough of a difference to justify the increase in price (or if there was a difference, it was pretty slight and not something I wanted). But these were 6.5 inch speakers, and then I got it in my head that I needed 5.25 inch speakers, and then things got confusing because Tweeter really didn't have a selection of any 5.25 inch speakers. The salesperson basically told me to buy a set of 5.25 Boston Pros on eBay and Tweeter would install them for me. Anyway, as long as fitting 6.5s in the door won't be a problem and since there's nothing wrong with silk dome tweeters, I may go with those. I'm not a big fan of the metallic sound anyway (in fact, I'm trying to get away from that).

There is a set of 6.5 inch SLs on eBay right now, new in the box, for $219 (Tweeter's price was $329). If I could get motivated to install those myself, that would be one heck of an upgrade for not a lot of money. Like I said, I've got your instruction page saved, so maybe I'll take a crack at it. I did have one question, though. Once the speaker is mounted on the fiberboard, do I really need to insulate the back of it (I'm sure that's not the right terminology). The guy at Tweeter told me that the door provides plenty of insulation. I seem to recall that this was a problem for you.

 

No, you don't need to insulate the back of the board. as long as its thick enough that it doesn't vibrate, you'll be fine. I don't have insulation on the rear doors' MDF boards but now there is Dynamat between the mdf that the speakers are in and the actually door panel.

If you decided to do it your self, I don't mind walking you through it everystep of the way. I've learned a few things along the way that may save you time.

Let me know what you decide and I'll PM my cell # to you.

I like the sound of the silk tweeter with female voices especially!

//Darius

 

Thanks, Darius. I'll let you know what I decide to do. Before I buy the speakers, I think I may first try to construct the baffle boards to make sure I can do it (at the very least, it will be a good exercise to take off the door panels, disassemble the speaker assemblies and cut the 1/2 inch MDF).

-e