View Poll Results: Do you think Lexus should have paid the entire cost of the repair?
Yes they should pay 100% -this was a design defect
83
62.88%
No - Offering to pay 50% was fair
36
27.27%
No-they should not pay anything, the car was out of warranty--too bad
13
9.85%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll
My Lexus nightmare
09-19-09, 03:51 PM
#1
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My Lexus nightmare
Until recently, I was very happy with my decision to have moved from American cars to the Lexus brand, which has a longstanding reputation for quality, reliability, and customer service..."the pursuit of perfection".
I have a 2006, IS 250 AWD, with 69k miles. Other than routine service, the car has been trouble free, but service has been expensive. When I had the 60k service performed, and all brakes and rotors serviced, my bill was $3,000 (my wife has a 2007 BMW 530xi with 50 k miles and we have not paid a penny for service). The 30k service on the IS was very expensive, so you need to figure this into the total cost of ownership.
But its not about the cost of service. I was driving home one day after a long trip and heard a sloshing sound when I applied the brakes. I noticed this at other times and could not figure out the source. I thought perhaps that I had a water bottle under the seat. So when I got home, I went to look under the seat to see if I could find anything. When I put my hand down on the floor in the rear passenger area, it was soaking wet. So was the front of the car. I was perplexed. I took my wet vac and pulled out about 1/2 gallon of water. I bought some fans and tried to dry the carpet out over the weekend. I could not figure out what the problem was, could it be a blocked sunroof drain? I took the car out for a drive and then later that day checked to see if the floor was dry--it was wet again, not as bad but still wet. It had not been raining, so that ruled out the sunroof--so in early August I took the car up to the Lexus dealer to see if they could figure out the problem.
Got a call the next day from the Lexus dealer. We think we found the problem. There's nothing coming out of your A/C drain, so the water is backing up into the car. We have a fix for this--a new and improved part, but unfortunately we HAVE TO DROP YOUR TRANSMISSION- and it will cost around $1,900.
I said I'm not very happy with what I'm hearing. And then he said, well of course, your carpet is ruined because the underlayment leached through and stained the light carpeting. That would be another $2,000. So we are talking $4 thousand in damage and repair because a rubber hose backed up.
Unfortunately, since your car is out of warranty, the dealer tells me that none of the repairs are covered. I'm livid--I tell him that this is the result of a design defect, plain and simple. Nothing he can do except I should call Lexus Customer Care and hit the option that says "share your Lexus story". You've got to be kidding me.
I do some research and find that the drain blockage is a known problem for the IS. In fact there is a TSB for the problem TSB:AC 003007:
HVAC EVAPORATOR DRAIN BLOCKAGE
Models:
’06 GS 300, ’06 – ’07 GS 430 & IS 250/350,
& ’07 GS 350/450h
So armed with this information, I call Lexus Customer Care and "share my story". I explain that I found the TSB and that from my perspective, this is not normal wear and tear but a design defect. I also say that I don't think I should have to pay for a design defect. They take the information, make no promises and tell me that they will get back to me in a week.
A week later, I hear from the dealer and they tell me that even thought the car is under warranty Lexus is willing to make a goodwill gesture and cover half of the cost. Rather than fight, I decided to cut my losses and just get the repair, but I was ticked-off.
Several days later, Lexus customer care called to see if I had any feedback on their offer and I said I was not happy that the company would not stand behind their cars and absorb the cost of what was clearly a design defect, that reputations take a long time to build, and that I expected much more from a company that prided itself on building some of the most reliable cars on the planet. Again I said this was a design defect, and they should eat the entire cost. Since they chose not to, I told them that I doubted if I would ever buy another Lexus.
After several more calls to the dealer, I finally picked up the car today after being in the shop for almost 1.5 months (some of the carpet/padding was on back order). Dealer said that it might have a chemical smell for a while because of stuff they used to clean the A/C vents. Smells a bit like cat urine for a few seconds then it goes away. Hopefully that will dissipate soon.
Anyway, a few years ago I moved from GM to Lexus because I was not happy with the reliability of their product (two failed transmissions) and will probably be moving from Lexus to BMW. I own five cars and if you think of the value of lifetime customer loyalty, this certainly did not help.
So, my suggestion if you own an IS, if you don't have an extended warranty you may want to reconsider.
I would also like to hear from others if you think that Lexus should have stepped up and paid for everything or if you think their offer was fair.
[bear in mind that in order to do the TSB, you have to drop the transmission, --it would cost $1900 to do-not really practical as preventive maintenance]
I have a 2006, IS 250 AWD, with 69k miles. Other than routine service, the car has been trouble free, but service has been expensive. When I had the 60k service performed, and all brakes and rotors serviced, my bill was $3,000 (my wife has a 2007 BMW 530xi with 50 k miles and we have not paid a penny for service). The 30k service on the IS was very expensive, so you need to figure this into the total cost of ownership.
But its not about the cost of service. I was driving home one day after a long trip and heard a sloshing sound when I applied the brakes. I noticed this at other times and could not figure out the source. I thought perhaps that I had a water bottle under the seat. So when I got home, I went to look under the seat to see if I could find anything. When I put my hand down on the floor in the rear passenger area, it was soaking wet. So was the front of the car. I was perplexed. I took my wet vac and pulled out about 1/2 gallon of water. I bought some fans and tried to dry the carpet out over the weekend. I could not figure out what the problem was, could it be a blocked sunroof drain? I took the car out for a drive and then later that day checked to see if the floor was dry--it was wet again, not as bad but still wet. It had not been raining, so that ruled out the sunroof--so in early August I took the car up to the Lexus dealer to see if they could figure out the problem.
Got a call the next day from the Lexus dealer. We think we found the problem. There's nothing coming out of your A/C drain, so the water is backing up into the car. We have a fix for this--a new and improved part, but unfortunately we HAVE TO DROP YOUR TRANSMISSION- and it will cost around $1,900.
I said I'm not very happy with what I'm hearing. And then he said, well of course, your carpet is ruined because the underlayment leached through and stained the light carpeting. That would be another $2,000. So we are talking $4 thousand in damage and repair because a rubber hose backed up.
Unfortunately, since your car is out of warranty, the dealer tells me that none of the repairs are covered. I'm livid--I tell him that this is the result of a design defect, plain and simple. Nothing he can do except I should call Lexus Customer Care and hit the option that says "share your Lexus story". You've got to be kidding me.
I do some research and find that the drain blockage is a known problem for the IS. In fact there is a TSB for the problem TSB:AC 003007:
HVAC EVAPORATOR DRAIN BLOCKAGE
Models:
’06 GS 300, ’06 – ’07 GS 430 & IS 250/350,
& ’07 GS 350/450h
So armed with this information, I call Lexus Customer Care and "share my story". I explain that I found the TSB and that from my perspective, this is not normal wear and tear but a design defect. I also say that I don't think I should have to pay for a design defect. They take the information, make no promises and tell me that they will get back to me in a week.
A week later, I hear from the dealer and they tell me that even thought the car is under warranty Lexus is willing to make a goodwill gesture and cover half of the cost. Rather than fight, I decided to cut my losses and just get the repair, but I was ticked-off.
Several days later, Lexus customer care called to see if I had any feedback on their offer and I said I was not happy that the company would not stand behind their cars and absorb the cost of what was clearly a design defect, that reputations take a long time to build, and that I expected much more from a company that prided itself on building some of the most reliable cars on the planet. Again I said this was a design defect, and they should eat the entire cost. Since they chose not to, I told them that I doubted if I would ever buy another Lexus.
After several more calls to the dealer, I finally picked up the car today after being in the shop for almost 1.5 months (some of the carpet/padding was on back order). Dealer said that it might have a chemical smell for a while because of stuff they used to clean the A/C vents. Smells a bit like cat urine for a few seconds then it goes away. Hopefully that will dissipate soon.
Anyway, a few years ago I moved from GM to Lexus because I was not happy with the reliability of their product (two failed transmissions) and will probably be moving from Lexus to BMW. I own five cars and if you think of the value of lifetime customer loyalty, this certainly did not help.
So, my suggestion if you own an IS, if you don't have an extended warranty you may want to reconsider.
I would also like to hear from others if you think that Lexus should have stepped up and paid for everything or if you think their offer was fair.
[bear in mind that in order to do the TSB, you have to drop the transmission, --it would cost $1900 to do-not really practical as preventive maintenance]
Last edited by lifeisgood; 09-19-09 at 04:31 PM. Reason: clarification to response
09-19-09, 04:19 PM
#2
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Hey man, sorry to hear. That absolutely sucks. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to vote that it was fair of them to pay 50%. Honestly, that's the reason they release TSIBs... to fix their product. You're absolutely right in that it is a design defect and that they should have taken responsibility for it... but they did that by releasing the TSIB.
I feel strongly that it's the customer's prerogative to keep your car maintained and up-to-date. I don't know about your dealer, but mine sends me e-mails, postcards, and home phone calls to remind me about TSIBs or services that are due or coming up. I appreciate their reminders very much, but even without it, I would probably still go see the dealer once every 6 months or so just to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
Once again, sorry to hear that. I hope the rest of your ownership period is better... I know I absolutely love my Lexus (although maintenance can get a little expensive)!
I feel strongly that it's the customer's prerogative to keep your car maintained and up-to-date. I don't know about your dealer, but mine sends me e-mails, postcards, and home phone calls to remind me about TSIBs or services that are due or coming up. I appreciate their reminders very much, but even without it, I would probably still go see the dealer once every 6 months or so just to make sure that everything is running smoothly.
Once again, sorry to hear that. I hope the rest of your ownership period is better... I know I absolutely love my Lexus (although maintenance can get a little expensive)!
09-19-09, 04:30 PM
#3
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Sorry to hear your story. I would have liked to see them cover the full repair. Would have given me peace of mind knowing if the same thing happened to me I'd be covered. I could understand them not wanting to cover it if it was 200k+ or lack of proper routine maintenance.
As for switching brands, I consider that for the same price you're getting more car with Lexus than a comparable BMW. You could argue that BMW is covering their costs up front. Also, issues can often vary from model to model even within the same manufacturer. Anyway, my next vehicle likely won't be a Lexus either, and BMWs 15k service intervals certainly are enticing feature.
With Toyota's reliability statistics, you should be good to go for a long while now! Good luck.
As for switching brands, I consider that for the same price you're getting more car with Lexus than a comparable BMW. You could argue that BMW is covering their costs up front. Also, issues can often vary from model to model even within the same manufacturer. Anyway, my next vehicle likely won't be a Lexus either, and BMWs 15k service intervals certainly are enticing feature.
With Toyota's reliability statistics, you should be good to go for a long while now! Good luck.
09-19-09, 04:38 PM
#4
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Situations like this are not an everyday occurrence and I am sorry you had to deal with being away from your car for 1.5 months. At least the dealership offered to pay for half and didn't say that they'd do nothing.
09-19-09, 05:02 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
I also have a 2006, and it's been great other than some rattles. I think you should consider that your car is the exception rather than the rule. I would also be pissed if I were in your shoes, but this is the first time I've heard a story like this in over 3 years on this site.
Take a look at the topics on this site v. a BMW forum. The BMW forum will have a substantial number of posts discussing repairs and failures. 99% of the posts on the Lexus forum are about upgrades. It's anecdotal, but easily observed.
You apparently got an IS that has more problems than most. I hope your Bimmer is on the other end of the curve, but the odds are more in your favor if you choose to stay with Lexus. Also, you seem pretty upset about the service costs. Let's be totally honest here: paying for the big service items at Lexus is for suckers. Stop letting them tell you you're due for a "30k service" and paying hundreds extra for worthless inspections. All you have to do is open your service schedule, and order "ala carte". You can do this at Lexus, or at another mechanic...either way, what you're doing right now guarantees that you'll get ripped off.
Incidentally, I can't believe they charged you an ADDITIONAL $2k to replace a $10 piece of carpet. I'd love to see Lexus' actual share of that 50% they claim to be absorbing...I bet they called the dealer, told them that parts and labor for the carpet replacement is $500 (tops), and added that to the flat rate for the TSB when calculating their 50% (which you can be sure is far less than what you paid).
Take a look at the topics on this site v. a BMW forum. The BMW forum will have a substantial number of posts discussing repairs and failures. 99% of the posts on the Lexus forum are about upgrades. It's anecdotal, but easily observed.
You apparently got an IS that has more problems than most. I hope your Bimmer is on the other end of the curve, but the odds are more in your favor if you choose to stay with Lexus. Also, you seem pretty upset about the service costs. Let's be totally honest here: paying for the big service items at Lexus is for suckers. Stop letting them tell you you're due for a "30k service" and paying hundreds extra for worthless inspections. All you have to do is open your service schedule, and order "ala carte". You can do this at Lexus, or at another mechanic...either way, what you're doing right now guarantees that you'll get ripped off.
Incidentally, I can't believe they charged you an ADDITIONAL $2k to replace a $10 piece of carpet. I'd love to see Lexus' actual share of that 50% they claim to be absorbing...I bet they called the dealer, told them that parts and labor for the carpet replacement is $500 (tops), and added that to the flat rate for the TSB when calculating their 50% (which you can be sure is far less than what you paid).
Last edited by 15951; 09-19-09 at 05:16 PM.
09-19-09, 05:56 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
I agree that the service schedule is for suckers--for that reason, in between the major services at 30k and 60k miles, I mostly did ala cart, just getting oil and filter changed unless the dealer had a specific recommendation. That said, I'm on my third set (original plus two replacements) of brakes/rotors at $1,400 per set w/69k miles while the BMW is still on the original set of brakes at 50k miles (and replacements would not have cost me anything if they had to be replaced). It's not that I'm upset about the cost of service, as much as I don't think the Lexus value proposition is as compelling as I thought when I bought the car--true the car cost less than a comparably equipped BMW, but I would bet that there is not much difference in the total cost in owning the Lexus vs. BMW.
09-19-09, 06:42 PM
#7
Wow this is not good, I am in the 60k mile range.
Do you know how can I tell if this applies to me or not?
I feel bad man, you should of been 100% covered.
Do you know how can I tell if this applies to me or not?
I feel bad man, you should of been 100% covered.
Last edited by mikez; 09-19-09 at 06:45 PM.
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09-19-09, 06:48 PM
#8
this isnt a good story man! lexus has spent decades building up its reputation. it clearly shows a manufacturer defect of a part, and they are pawning it off as if it is irrevocable because it is beyond the initial warranty. i wouldnt go as far as to switch brands just yet, but i would be cautious the next time i purchase a lexus. i did opt for the extended warranty for my car because most car maintenance problems occur nearly rite after the initial warranty has ended. its safer in the long run, though it doesnt help that the cost is so much for the years that its not even being affected. but safety does help me sleep at nite, and peace of mind is nothing to mess with. good luck on your future purchases, but i do agree that lexus should have done something to help you out in your situation. sorry man!
09-19-09, 06:54 PM
#9
Your car lasted 69k miles without a problem, and you're complaining to Lexus for poor reliability b/c of a minor issue? I know it caused a lot of damage but when you're out of warranty, you're out of warranty. Even BMW wouldn't cover it. The one thing I heard is that you should be super nice to the HQ when you have no coverage, since they might help you out, which they did. I think it's fair, if there is a TSB out for it...that means they are aware of the problem and have fixed it for free under warranty and improved their future production years.
09-19-09, 07:41 PM
#10
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You'll probably be even more disappointed about reliability when a problem similar to this one costs about thrice as much over at BMW than it did over at Lexus. You do have to realize that after 69k miles on a car, regardless of make or carmaker reputation, you're eventually going to run into some snags. It is inevitable.
When you're out of the warranty, you're out of the warranty. This is regardless of the manufacturer. Get your head out of your ****. The fact that there is a TSB out for this means that Lexus is aware of the problem and has a fix for it, and that this issue has been fixed on latter model years. The fact that this problem didn't occur to you whilst you were under warranty is a shame but unfortunately Lexus has no obligation whatsoever to fix this for you free of charge once the warranty is up.
We'll see how you feel about your wife's BMW when it gets out of warranty and its 'service inclusive' term.
When you're out of the warranty, you're out of the warranty. This is regardless of the manufacturer. Get your head out of your ****. The fact that there is a TSB out for this means that Lexus is aware of the problem and has a fix for it, and that this issue has been fixed on latter model years. The fact that this problem didn't occur to you whilst you were under warranty is a shame but unfortunately Lexus has no obligation whatsoever to fix this for you free of charge once the warranty is up.
We'll see how you feel about your wife's BMW when it gets out of warranty and its 'service inclusive' term.
Last edited by FisforFast; 09-19-09 at 07:45 PM.
09-19-09, 08:05 PM
#11
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You'll probably be even more disappointed about reliability when a problem similar to this one costs about thrice as much over at BMW than it did over at Lexus. You do have to realize that after 69k miles on a car, regardless of make or carmaker reputation, you're eventually going to run into some snags. It is inevitable.
When you're out of the warranty, you're out of the warranty. This is regardless of the manufacturer. Get your head out of your ****. The fact that there is a TSB out for this means that Lexus is aware of the problem and has a fix for it, and that this issue has been fixed on latter model years. The fact that this problem didn't occur to you whilst you were under warranty is a shame but unfortunately Lexus has no obligation whatsoever to fix this for you free of charge once the warranty is up.
We'll see how you feel about your wife's BMW when it gets out of warranty and its 'service inclusive' term.
When you're out of the warranty, you're out of the warranty. This is regardless of the manufacturer. Get your head out of your ****. The fact that there is a TSB out for this means that Lexus is aware of the problem and has a fix for it, and that this issue has been fixed on latter model years. The fact that this problem didn't occur to you whilst you were under warranty is a shame but unfortunately Lexus has no obligation whatsoever to fix this for you free of charge once the warranty is up.
We'll see how you feel about your wife's BMW when it gets out of warranty and its 'service inclusive' term.
09-19-09, 08:10 PM
#12
I'm going to agree with FisforFast, well put. I think it's generous of them that they paid for half of it. I don't think most other companies would perform a goodwill gesture like that for you, so imagine if you would've had to pay the full cost.
I was wondering if BMW or Mercedez does goodwill repairs?
I was wondering if BMW or Mercedez does goodwill repairs?
09-19-09, 08:42 PM
#13
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I'm going to agree with FisforFast, well put. I think it's generous of them that they paid for half of it. I don't think most other companies would perform a goodwill gesture like that for you, so imagine if you would've had to pay the full cost.
I was wondering if BMW or Mercedez does goodwill repairs?
I was wondering if BMW or Mercedez does goodwill repairs?
09-19-09, 10:06 PM
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Why didn't you report to your insurance company? That's what you paid for accident, vandalisiam, theft, fire, and flood. You could of gotten your car claimed as total loss and got yourself a new car.
I kinda have mix thought/feelings about this since this is a manufacture defect. I feel they should of absorbed more like 80% because this is like a defected time bomb due to the faulty part from the start.
I kinda have mix thought/feelings about this since this is a manufacture defect. I feel they should of absorbed more like 80% because this is like a defected time bomb due to the faulty part from the start.
