How is it "irrelevant"? The Prius featured the most ground-breaking hybrid powertrain of its time. No small feat.

Not to mention that back then, Toyota was already dabbling in full EV's and was at that time pretty much well ahead of everyone else in the industry.

 

Well, IMO, it was irrelevant to the issue we were discussing, because, concerning the spread of full-BEVs, they are going to require many more recharging stations for owners.......something that a lot of people (including myself) simply don't have access to, and probably won't unless we physically move. Yes, local businesses (such as WaWa's) sometimes provide them, but only for short 15 or 20-minute stretches at the most, when most BEVs, with 110-120-volt chargers, need up to 8 hours....essentially overnight. The Prius spread like wildfire because it did not need chargers......the small ICE, although low on power, took care of the charging as needed.

 

It's completely relevant to what we're talking about because it demonstrates Toyota's past ability to adapt to change and come out on top under pressure from environmental regs. They embraced it and came out stronger for it.

Whether or not you think BEV's are viable is what is irrelevant.

 

I also mentioned this in the G80 thread, but I just saw the performance and fuel economy figures of the new 2.4T in the NX and I'm quite disappointed. This does not appear to be much of a step up from the current 2.0T and certainly not near the power of the outgoing 3.5 NA V6 despite the HP numbers.

 

They are viable for some people, mainly those with single-fail homes and larger townhouses.....and, in my area, for instance, the number of new Tesla Model 3s has absolutely exploded in the last couple of years. But there are also a lot of people who simply don't have outdoor (or garage) electric hook-ups....and condo boards and landlords, in most cases, aren't going to spend the money or add the power-line infrastructure to install them. I still stand by what I said earlier.....emissions or not, IMO it is ludicrous to ban new ICEs.

 

Thirsty and slow. Sad.

 

And this is supposed to be the new workhorse replacement for the V6 inside the RX, ES, Highlander, Camry, etc.

 

Who knows but Toyota obviously has issues developing turbo engines. When they make one they just can't get it on par with competition. In this case 0.4 extra displacement gives it the best torque in its class from what I'm aware off but that doesn't translate to acceleration somehow. Or they crippled it on purpose in order to make 450h+ seem even faster. RDX has less displacement and 40 lb/ft less yet it's quicker off the line. Comparison with X3 is even worse as X3 has close to 60 lb/ft of torque less yet it's as fast as RDX. Audi Q5 is on whole another performance level compared to rest of the field and it achieves that with RDX power numbers. Q5 PHEV will have more horsepower and torque than 450h+ and there is a marketing reason why we never saw that combined torque on Rav4 Prime.

Unfortunately all of us expected 2.4T to be 3.5V6 replacement but it ended up being 2.0T replacement after all.

 

Unless the NX gained an extra 300 pounds or so, which is very unlikely since it's only been stretched one inch, it really makes no sense why an engine with power and torque numbers higher than the 3.5 V6 is only .2 seconds faster than the outgoing 2.0T and plummets a whole 2 MPG. Perhaps Toyota doesn't want to step on the toes of the 450h+, but that vehicle will be in such short supply like the RAV4 Prime that it really shouldn't be an issue. The archaic Asin 8-speed also likely isn't helping matters.

 

How can you possibly say that? There was no 3.5V6 in the NX. So they are not replacing the v6 with a I4t. The new I4t is an upgrade over the current motor in the NX. It remains to be seen what Toyota does in the RX. The new NX is going to full time awd and is never ever in 2wd in the I4t set up…it’s a very good system that is not designed for maximum acceleration like you would have in rwd or fwd set ups where the awd engages on slip.

 

A lot of great discussion going on here I can see.

It will be interesting to see how much of Toyota's original plans pan out, but one thing I must reiterate, a lot of concerns being expressed regarding the age of the chart miss the point to this discussion I brought up.

All Toyota/Lexus models on truck basis TNGA-F do not give damn about things EV for the time being, as they will be primarily ICE in the meantime (with at best "full EV mode" like the next 4Runner.) One wants to know what is replacing the GR and UR family engines from top to bottom and make sure we have no blindspots, if a higher output I4T or smaller FI V6 or NA V6 appears out of nowhere. We got some good answers here.

Now, I am not upset LOL. I just see that I might have approached this poorly, which left so much open to interpretation. I mentioned the TTV8 in a process of elimination, as that was clearly one of those engines planned. I did not bring it up, as a means to insist that Toyota must bring it into production. I am trying to determine if another engine will slot in between V35A and T24A or even above V35A, excluding the TTV8.

There are a few gaps I don't understand and the Toyota professionals I do know, won't comment.

Additonally, seeing as my personal and professional life is proving too intense for me (responsibilities), I am probably no longer posting online anymore, as I cannot keep up with discussion anywhere like I used to.

Anyone who has quoted me recently, I am gonna do my best to reply ASAP. I think everything one has to know about TNGA vehicles is out there now and I can't make any useful further contributions going forward. I think everyone else can do exactly the same thing and more.

 

Yes, that is definitely true. It's old indeed, but engine development as you know probably very well, takes ages to execute. It also wasn't specifically what I am trying to touch on. Any vehicle on GA-F will be replacing vehicles currently/previously powered by the UR V8 and GR V6 engines, so their replacements have nothing to do with BEVs. LX 600 and GX 550 are not that, let alone even anything unibody like TX or RX. I know that to be very true, as it is relevant to anything using Dynamic Force engines.

Maybe for cars like LS, IS, and ES that might be different, but for utilities Toyota is not at all abandoning any of those ICE powertrains.

Yes, I understand that to be true. But cannot be certain if the graph goes in order of power output in kW or by displacement instead. My confusion is that, what if goes counterclockwise by displacement, T24A 2.4T is actually the unlabeled one after the A25A 2.5L and before the M20A 2.0L? And then something with higher displacement between 2.6L and 3.3L, goes between the V35A and A25A 2.5L?

GX 550 being V35A with a lower tune could make sense, but there being another 6 cylinder is another thing I wonder about. I first heard about the 2.4T in 2014-15, during XF50 LS development. It never panned out there, but it did 6 years later in AZ20 NX.

 

If you say so but there have been strong rumors for years now that 2.5 turbo would be the one to replace 3.5V6 and 2.5T turned out to be true. Not only it's 2GR replacement but it's 8AR replacemens as well as it seems. I wish Toyota would come up with another three liter V6 single turbo engine to properly replace 2GR-FKS but chances are like 0.1% of that happening. Sorry to say this but next gen RX will be powered by the same T24A that's coming in new NX. They could tune it up close to 300hp probably if they wanted to but don't hold your breath for it. Lexus ES will remain with 2GR until it reaches eol and by then it would be 2025 and if ES ever sees another generation it will proably be either PHEV/BEV or in the worst case scenario hybrid only.

 

We've known that the NA V6 was on its way out for a long time now due to tightening global emissions regs. It's the same reason Toyota swapped out all its V8's for turbo V6's. Why this is a surprise to anyone is beyond me.

 

Lincoln has a 2.7 V6 twin turbo
Acura has an all new 3.0 V6 turbo

It totally makes sense for Lexus to have something in between the 2.4tt and the very powerful 3.5tt