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Having an AWD option for the ES will almost certainly mean a bigger hump in the center of the back seats, nullifying a big selling point of the ES, although this selling point is admittedly already mostly gone with the adoption of the TNGA/GA-K platform where the exhaust pipe no longer hangs below the chassis but is tucked in the canal that intrudes into the interior. Still, further intruding into the back seat space by having an AWD option may negate any sales gains that AWD enables, rendering the effort meaningless from a business standpoint. It therefore makes a lot more sense to add AWD to a RWD platform instead.
So wait. The 2019 Lexus ES hump in the rear seats will increase to a big hump with AWD? Wouldn't the hump stay the same size?
But I agree with your overall point. The main demographics of the Lexus ES buyers will not care or want AWD. The Lexus ES is Toyota's cash cow. They would want to play it as conservative as possible to make sure it keeps selling.
Originally Posted by oldcajun
From everything I have seen reported, Lexus has built a better ES. It is roomier, quieter, faster, and more economical. Unlike the LS, they did not change the basic vehicle concept, just made it better at what it did well. The F Sport might attract a few new buyers but I see most of the ES sales coming from current ES owners and Camry/Avalon owners wanting to move up. Fortunately for Lexus, this is a vast number of potential buyers. The question now is how many will move up to the new ES and how many will switch to an SUV?
Definitely. The ES is better than before.
Agreed. I also predict the F-Sport will attract a few new buyers but not a lot. The car enthusiasts types will not be swayed by a F-Sport design, being that its still FWD. It'll likely attract the people that want a sportier image but doesn't care for FWD. I definitely agree majority of sales will be from current ES owners and Camry/Avalon owners looking to upgrade to a Lexus type vehicle.
I love the question you asked at the end because its an SUV era in the USA right now.
also, on these slides from lexusenthusiast, no mention of avs - just 'performance dampers' on both.
and it seems to me that power folding mirrors should be in 'ultra luxury' too.
It is ridiculous. I definitely agree. Being an "ultra luxury package", it should have everything.
Its sad it doesn't have AVS or power folding mirrors. For the power folding mirrors specifically, its just the US-Market that doesn't get it. We also don't get heated seats too for the US-Market.
Lexus has included an Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) with the ES F SPORT package, which controls the damping force of the shock absorbers on all four wheels in response to driving operations and road surface conditions:
I also saw 2 video reviews with reviewers at the event stating that the F-Sport pack will be the only package with AVS.
also, on these slides from lexusenthusiast, no mention of avs - just 'performance dampers' on both.
and it seems to me that power folding mirrors should be in 'ultra luxury' too.
Lexus loves its arbitrary trim packaging. Want an F-Sport GS? Sure, but you don't get fog lights. Want to get an F-Sport GS with AWD in the NE? Sure, but you don't get fog lights OR ML stereo
So wait. The 2019 Lexus ES hump in the rear seats will increase to a big hump with AWD? Wouldn't the hump stay the same size?
If you look at the humps in the IS and the GS the hump in the '19 ES is quite a bit smaller/lower, since it only has to accommodate the exhaust pipe but not a drive shaft. The humps in the IS and the GS are the worst in their respective classes (just look at how close the humps are to the rear vents in the pics below), however, as some of their RWD/AWD competitors (such as the TLX SH-AWD pictured below) actually manage to fit both a drive shaft and two exhaust pipes in a hump that looks similarly small to the '19 ES's, so there's still hope for the '19 ES to get an AWD option without modifying the floor plan if Lexus acquired the right engineering talents. I'm not holding my breath though, seeing how Lexus engineers had to intrude into the front legroom and revert to 6-speed auto just to make AWD available on the IS and the GS when no other automaker has ever had to do that. It was a real shame.
IS:
GS:
'19 ES:
TLX SH-AWD:
Here's the drivetrain of the IS, which shows how far above the exhaust pipes the drive shaft is and how much space is wasted in between.
And here's the TLX SH-AWD's drivetrain, with the drive shaft stacked much closer to the dual exhaust pipes to minimize intrusion to the interior:
There may be some nice improvements over the previous ES but in no way am I seeing something here that could possibly take the place of a Lexus GS or compete with a 5 series, E class, etc.
If you look at the humps in the IS and the GS the hump in the '19 ES is quite a bit smaller/lower, since it only has to accommodate the exhaust pipe but not a drive shaft. The humps in the IS and the GS are the worst in their respective classes (just look at how close the humps are to the rear vents in the pics below), however, as some of their RWD/AWD competitors (such as the TLX SH-AWD pictured below) actually manage to fit both a drive shaft and two exhaust pipes in a hump that looks similarly small to the '19 ES's, so there's still hope for the '19 ES to get an AWD option without modifying the floor plan if Lexus acquired the right engineering talents. I'm not holding my breath though, seeing how Lexus engineers had to intrude into the front legroom and revert to 6-speed auto just to make AWD available on the IS and the GS when no other automaker has ever had to do that. It was a real shame.
IS:
GS:
'19 ES:
TLX SH-AWD:
Here's the drivetrain of the IS, which shows how far above the exhaust pipes the drive shaft is and how much space is wasted in between.
And here's the TLX SH-AWD's drivetrain, with the drive shaft stacked much closer to the dual exhaust pipes to minimize intrusion to the interior:
why is there any doubt that the ES or Avalon can have AWD. Lexus has stated the new chassis can offer it if required. Case closed.
why is there any doubt that the ES or Avalon can have AWD. Lexus has stated the new chassis can offer it if required. Case closed.
I did not have any doubt regarding the ability for the new chassis itself to accommodate AWD. What I had doubt about is for the ES to have AWD without modifying the hump size. That's all.
I'm developing a genuine interest in the new ES in UL trim. One thing that's bugging me a bit are some of the things that are missing from or that you can't get on the UL (folding mirrors, folding rear seats, avs etc. . Lack of AWD is OK but the option would e nice. Individually these things might not be deal breakers but as they add up it will cause me to widen my search.
I'm developing a genuine interest in the new ES in UL trim. One thing that's bugging me a bit are some of the things that are missing from or that you can't get on the UL (folding mirrors, folding rear seats, avs etc. . Lack of AWD is OK but the option would e nice. Individually these things might not be deal breakers but as they add up it will cause me to widen my search.
I would like to have the items you mentioned as well. However, that adds costs, and Lexus is trying hard to keep the vehicle in the sweet spot of a particular price point.
I would like to have the items you mentioned as well. However, that adds costs, and Lexus is trying hard to keep the vehicle in the sweet spot of a particular price point.
Not on the UL, that's a sad excuse. If it's a Premium package okay sure, maybe.. But still auto folding mirrors should be standard on a Lexus these days. Plus if you're supposed to be a luxury automaker then cost shouldn't be as much of an issue as your more mainstream Toyota brand. Plus plus, even if they added those few extra features you'd still be paying way more for those features on a German car.
I did not have any doubt regarding the ability for the new chassis itself to accommodate AWD. What I had doubt about is for the ES to have AWD without modifying the hump size. That's all.
Not on the UL, that's a sad excuse. If it's a Premium package okay sure, maybe.. But still auto folding mirrors should be standard on a Lexus these days. Plus if you're supposed to be a luxury automaker then cost shouldn't be as much of an issue as your more mainstream Toyota brand. Plus plus, even if they added those few extra features you'd still be paying way more for those features on a German car.
