john341

100% agree. Props to Kevin (Krew) for doing this types of article for all the new models.

BippuLexus

Yup. The 2019 ES rides on the GA-K platform and it shares it with the Camry and Avalon. All 3 vehicles are built in Kentucky at the TMMK plant.

This is a good point. Different countries have different views on what luxury is or not. In China, the Audi and Buick is literally Mercedes-level prestige over there.

The Lexus ES is not seen in the USA as a "executive luxury" car, where VIPs get driven around in. That is pretty much reserve for the higher-end full-size sedans.
The Lexus ES is seen 2 different ways in America by 2 different demographics. The ES target demographic see an affordable and reliable big luxury sedan. The car enthusiasts sees it as a Camry/Avalon in a suit with the wrong-wheel-drive. Evidence of this was the other ES trend - where there was two different options floating around about the ES.

sam430

iTrader: (10)

true, when they get old and don't care anymore

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Seems only f-sport and 'ultra luxury' versions get avs, correct?

does the car have power folding mirrors in any version?

situman

Yea either the GS or IS is definitely going away with the debut of this thing. All they need is to add AWD. And I have to guess it is the GS. The IS needs to grow and there will not be any space left for the GS.

ydooby

I think interior room is an even more important factor than AWD, although having AWD available certainly doesn't hurt. The IS and the GS are simply by far the most cramped in their respective classes. The main reason the Q50 is eating the IS+GS's lunch right now IMHO is precisely because the Q50 is priced at the IS's level ($3k cheaper than the IS actually) but has more legroom (front + rear) than the GS! That's a winning strategy that Lexus can learn from. Grow the IS into a proper midsize sports sedan, and turn the GS into something coupe-like, a la the CLS, 6-series and A7. I really hope it isn't that hard for Lexus to figure out.

situman

The new models are already coupe like in profile. Making the GS even more coupe like...wouldnt that make it even more cramped? The IS definitely needs to grow...into this gen's GS size. Maybe a tad wider. The RC needs to go away too. I dont see its reason for existence since they phoned the thing in.

ydooby

Nah.. the GS still looks decidedly sedan-like when compared to the real coupe-like sedans that are designed to be and marketed as 4-door coupes. And once the GS is repositioned as a proper 4-door coupe, its interior room will no longer be compared to the regular midsize sports sedans, but rather those midsize 4-door coupes. The IS instead will need to make sure it has the proper interior room to take on the other midsize sports sedans.

BippuLexus

Only F-Sport gets AVS and the Ultra Luxury Package doesn't.

Nope. Power folding mirrors doesn't exist on the US-Market. It wasn't listed as a feature in any packages nor it was listed as an option.

To be honest - its quite disappointing for the Lexus ES not to have the power-folding mirrors in the US-Market. I can see why the IS don't have it because its a step down and its a more of a "compact sporty" car first.

If Lexus axes the IS, that would be more stupid than axing the GS. And axing the GS is already stupid.

The Lexus IS is their only cheap RWD drive car. Lets say they axe the IS and bring the GS back. That means Lexus's cheapest RWD sedan is the Lexus GS. They will lose a HUGE chunk of their Lexus IS buyers to BMW, MB, Audi and Infiniti. Because its unlikely Lexus IS buyers will buy a Lexus ES F-Sport over the Lexus IS F-Sport. The typical IS buyer is younger than the ES buyer. Well - from what I see in the SF Bay Area - it mainly is. Majority of the kids here, in around their teens or early 20s, drive Lexus IS or Lexus RC.
^^Additional point - axing the Lexus IS, means also axing the Lexus RC too. So its unlikely the Lexus IS will be axed.

True. The Lexus IS will grow bigger in size - pretty much all cars grow bigger in size every year. However - I believe Lexus will keep the Lexus IS relatively compact because they have the Lexus ES there for the "bigger size". The problem with the GS was that the ES was too similar in size to it. If Lexus did axe the GS, it was probably cause the GS and ES were too similar and they rather keep the one that pulls the most sales. And that's the ES, sadly.

Agreed 10x fold. The Lexus ES needs AWD. From a car enthusiast's perspective, the AWD Lexus ES is a must. However - I think Lexus won't add the AWD to the Lexus ES because they know they don't need to. They have been selling on average of high 40K to 70K Lexus ES yearly since 2002. Its been selling like hotcakes without AWD. I guess they'll have to figure out if AWD will increase their sales volume, if it doesn't then its likely they wont add it.

LeX2K

The ES has never been an enthusiasts car, was never designed or intended to be one since 1990. I swear some people simply can't accept the ES for what it is. If you want AWD for RWD you don't buy the ES it's that simple.

BippuLexus

Agreed. +1

I have been saying this before too. The Lexus ES has never been an enthusiasts car. I notice there are tons of comments on YouTube, CL, and LexusEnthusiasts where people want the Lexus ES to have AWD. I'll admit. I want it to have it too. But I also agree that the ES don't need AWD nor does its main demographic want AWD.

ydooby

Having an AWD option for the ES will almost certainly mean a bigger hump in the center of the back seats, nullifying a big selling point of the ES, although this selling point is admittedly already mostly gone with the adoption of the TNGA/GA-K platform where the exhaust pipe no longer hangs below the chassis but is tucked in the canal that intrudes into the interior. Still, further intruding into the back seat space by having an AWD option may negate any sales gains that AWD enables, rendering the effort meaningless from a business standpoint. It therefore makes a lot more sense to add AWD to a RWD platform instead.

oldcajun

From everything I have seen reported, Lexus has built a better ES. It is roomier, quieter, faster, and more economical. Unlike the LS, they did not change the basic vehicle concept, just made it better at what it did well. The F Sport might attract a few new buyers but I see most of the ES sales coming from current ES owners and Camry/Avalon owners wanting to move up. Fortunately for Lexus, this is a vast number of potential buyers. The question now is how many will move up to the new ES and how many will switch to an SUV?

peteharvey

If the similarity in ES/GS size was a problem, then why hasn't it ever been a problem for:

E Class/CLS 4 Door Coupe
S Class/forthcoming AMG GT 4 Door Coupe

GLC/GLC 4 Door Coupe
GLE/GLE 4 Door Coupe

3 Series/4 Series 4 Door Coupe
5 Series/6 Series 4 Door Coupe
7 Series/forthcoming 8 Series 4 Door Coupe

X3/X4 4 Door Coupe
X5/X6 4 Door Coupe

A4/A5
A6/A7
A7/forthcoming A8

Q7/forthcoming Q8?

Why don't the Germans axe their sporty niche 4 door coupes?

The Germans seem to have a two-tier clear delineation between their regular sedans, and their niche sporty 4 door coupes.
What is going on with Lexus' line-up?
At times practical and very popular like the ES.
At other times sporty niche with a front mid-engine & cramped interior for woeful sales like 5LS, or similarly woeful 4GS sales leading to the axing of the dynamic RWD 5GS altogether.

If they say the dynamic RWD 4GS is impractical & slow selling, hence axed - then why create a more sporty niched than even super slow selling 5LS?
I've never seen Lexus' line-up this incoherent.

I understand the two-tier delineation with the Germans, but what's going on over at Lexus?
.